Author Topic: The perfection of the Word  (Read 704 times)

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Offline John

Re: The perfection of the Word
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2018, 02:30:31 PM »

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 Colin,
            "f a man judges someone of anything i can show you that there is no sin with the Lord and the one judging is in the sin he sees. You onlyh see the sin you are in."

This is nonsense. if you see that someone is committing a sinful action, God can also see that that person is committing a sinful action. That one makes a judgement, whether privatly or publicly does not hide that action from God's sight.

The only time God does not see are sinful actins is when they have been forgiven. If there is no forgiveness then those sins are a horrible affront to God.

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Offline davetaff

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Re: The perfection of the Word
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2018, 02:37:17 PM »
Dave,
             Read the whole passage that you are quoting and the meaning changes from do not judge to , as I posted to judge wisely.
As I said the Bible does not tell us not to judge but to be wise in our judgements.

If you are daft enough to believe that Christian should not judge other, how do you make a decision about any person or situation? Are you always guliable when dealing with people, if your not you are judging people, which some people think Christian's shouldn't do!

Hi John
Thanks for your reply I have done a word search for " judge wisely " but seams it dose not appear anywhere in scripture KJV so on what do you base your statement.

As for the verses I quoted lets look at a bit more.

Mat 7:1  Judge not, that ye be not judged.
Mat 7:2  For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
Mat 7:3  And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:4  Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
Mat 7:5  Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.
     


As far as I can see from the above we should not judge anyone until we remove the beam from our own eye so that we can see clearly I take this to mean the beam is sin we need to  remove our own sins to see clearly until then we should not judge others.

Or are you saying you are perfect and can judge your brothers in Christ.


A few wise words from St Paul


Rom 14:10  But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11  For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12  So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13  Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.

1Co 4:5  Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
   


Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: The perfection of the Word
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2018, 11:13:30 PM »
Read read Matt 7v2. What does it say?
Then read the parable about judging with a tree sticking out of one's eye.
Just what is Jesus teaching us?
Not to judge people or not to be hypocrites and judge other when being guilty of far worse sins?

If we are going to be judged for our actions and judged as well by what ever standard we have used on others we have to be wise in our judgements.

You believe that when Jesus comes again that Christian's will judge those they rule over. Surely there is a need to learn how to judge wisely and justly.

Offline davetaff

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Re: The perfection of the Word
« Reply #11 on: May 25, 2018, 11:24:20 AM »
Hi John
Thanks for your reply you ask what is Christ teaching us I would say not to judge at all at the present because we don't know all the facts but God does he knows the past present and future so can make righteous judgements.
I also think that those who sit in judgement in the millennium will have this ability.

You keep using the phrase judge wisely but I can't find it in scripture on what do you base it.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: The perfection of the Word
« Reply #12 on: May 25, 2018, 12:23:27 PM »
Dave,
 I base it on the need to be right when making a judgement and on what Jesus said in Matt 7:2-5.

If one is to be judged by the same standard one uses against someone else then one must think carefully about any judgement one makes.

Offline Collin

Re: The perfection of the Word
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2018, 08:33:44 AM »
      The word is perfect and as it is written in the worldly understanding or flesh, it is teaching the righteousness of the world so as so is a book of law and law is for judgement and this is the sin men are in but when we overcome this world we are no longer teachers of law or judges but with the Spirit where we are no longer under law. So the sin we see is the sin we are in. Is that so hard?

  Collin

Offline francis drake

Re: The perfection of the Word
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2018, 10:18:32 AM »
      The word is perfect and as it is written in the worldly understanding or flesh, it is teaching the righteousness of the world so as so is a book of law and law is for judgement and this is the sin men are in but when we overcome this world we are no longer teachers of law or judges but with the Spirit where we are no longer under law.

I think I understand what you are saying here Collin, and generally agree.
Quote
So the sin we see is the sin we are in. Is that so hard?
But this is a completely illogical and unbiblical leap of the imagination.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline John

Re: The perfection of the Word
« Reply #15 on: May 30, 2018, 02:52:32 PM »
Colin,
          "when we overcome this world we are no longer teachers of law or judges but with the Spirit where we are no longer under law. "
In this life we will not overcome the world. Our nature has been corupted by sin and our natural inclination or bias is to sin.

Out role here is not to teach about Gods law, but to introduce sinners to Jesus. s today sin is eating an extra cream cake, talking about the Holiness of God and about his 10 commandments can help people learn about their need of a saviour.  In doing this we are not judges. It was to counter this that Jesus taught by the measure we judge others so we will be judged.

As you say we are not required to live by the law, Christians have been saved from the consquences of the law and can turn to Jesus for repeated forgiveness when we fall into sin.

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