Author Topic: Fate of unbelief  (Read 2945 times)

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Offline francis drake

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #80 on: June 01, 2018, 02:41:44 PM »

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Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply we also need to remember the difference between an apostle and a disciple a disciple is one who follows a apostle is one who is sent if he is sent someone most send him give him a command do you think the apostles could have refused to go.
Of course the apostles could refuse to go. You have given no evidence otherwise.
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I am not saying there is no freewill all the disciples used it to accept or reject Christ freewill is essential if we are to love God as he wants us to.
What I am saying there are certain people whom God has chosen to do certain things to further his plan it you don't believe me read the story of Jonah he tried to refuse but God brought him back and used him to preach to Nineveh.
You misuse Jonah again and again Dave. In fact the book of Jonah is one of the best illustrations of man's freewill before God.

As a prophet of God, the Lord had high expectations of Jonah, his servant.-

Lk12v......... For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.

But despite that, Jonah still retained freewill, otherwise he would never have been able to flee from the Lord!
Jonah was offended that God wanted him to bring a word to Israel's enemies, so headed off in the opposite direction.

I am sure that many have been convicted of something by the Lord, often more than once, and then using human reason have watered it down and out of existence.
So God set out to persuade Jonah, using his flight as an outreach to the sailors. Realising that his own selfishness had put the lives of these men at risk. If Jonah stayed with the ship, he would drown along with the crew anyway, so Jonah was left with the only moral freewill decision.-

Jonah1v12?Pick me up and throw me into the sea,? he replied, ?and it will become calm. I know that it is my fault that this great storm has come upon you.?

But note their response.


13Instead, the men did their best to row back to land. But they could not, for the sea grew even wilder than before. 14Then they cried out to the Lord, ?Please, Lord, do not let us die for taking this man?s life. Do not hold us accountable for killing an innocent man, for you, Lord, have done as you pleased.? 15Then they took Jonah and threw him overboard, and the raging sea grew calm. 16At this the men greatly feared the Lord, and they offered a sacrifice to the Lord and made vows to him.

Because of God's foreknowledge, Jonah's freewill decision to run away led to the acknowledgement of the Lord by these pagans.

Having been swallowed by a great fish, Jonah comes to his senses and repents before the Lord. The fish vomits Jonah up and Jonah then returns to the prophetic call.

You cannot use this to show Jonah had no freewill when the text shows otherwise.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

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Offline davetaff

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #81 on: June 01, 2018, 06:40:33 PM »
Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply which proves absolutely nothing the story of Jonah is easy to understand God said to Jonah to go Nineveh and Jonah said no  and did a runner but God brought him back in so doing he overrode his freewill.

You said
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.Of course the apostles could refuse to go. You have given no evidence otherwise       

You have given no evidence they could I have proven with scripture that certain people are chosen by God and there is nothing in scripture that they refused to do what he wanted.

Those who are chosen were predestined from the foundation of the world to do the will of God.

.   Mat 20:16 So the last shall be first, and the first last: for many be called, but few chosen. View more

Mat 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. View more

Mar 13:20 And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days
  Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you   


I know you don't like the idea of God overriding people's freewill but you can't go against scripture.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #82 on: June 02, 2018, 12:53:09 AM »
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Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply which proves absolutely nothing the story of Jonah is easy to understand God said to Jonah to go Nineveh and Jonah said no  and did a runner but God brought him back in so doing he overrode his freewill.

Or Jonah changed his mind
..or a mixture of both [though God will never force a person against their will - He can change their will]  but that's another topic...






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