Author Topic: Fate of unbelief  (Read 2894 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #8 on: April 28, 2018, 10:31:34 AM »

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !
Dave, how do you understand an eternity without God?

Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !

Offline davetaff

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #9 on: April 28, 2018, 04:30:03 PM »
Dave, how do you understand an eternity without God?

Hi John
Never really thought about it but without access to the tree of life Christ there is only death no life so life without God is death you cannot live any kind of life out side God.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #10 on: April 28, 2018, 07:14:30 PM »
Why then does Jesus teach us about punishment for unbelieve?
If spiritual life ceases after judgement why waste time making a judgement?

Offline davetaff

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #11 on: April 29, 2018, 05:12:26 PM »
Why then does Jesus teach us about punishment for unbelieve?
If spiritual life ceases after judgement why waste time making a judgement?

Hi John
Thanks for your reply would be nice if you gave some scripture on what you base your question as for judgement why dose every one assume there will always be a negative result there are always two possibilities and we have a righteous judge who will take all things into consideration.
The result of a negative judgement maybe the second death which is a far better fate than eternal torment which I do not believe in for one minute except for the devil and his angles.
There is another aspect of the churches teaching  that I find worrying if we in our heart want God to torment sinners in a literal lake of fire hell if you like as has been preached by many churches are we in danger of a great sin because we are not showing Love to our neighbour or our enemies.

As an example I offer this verse.

Mat 5:28  But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.
   


If we in our heart want sinners and unbelievers to be tormented for eternity then we brake our Lords  command to LOVE and become a sinner.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #12 on: April 30, 2018, 02:48:22 PM »
Dave,
         Can you be realistic and look at your neighbours, work mates and friends and identify those who are Christian and those who are not Christian. Now at death what will be the fate of those of the who are not Christian.
As non christians do you expect that they will be in heaven?  If they are not in heaven where are they?

Two verses that speak of punishment and of eternity.
Matt 85:11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.?

ecclesiastes 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end.

The weeping and gnashing of teeth is referred to several times by Jesus and always as a result of failing judgement. Hell is a terrible place, whether you think it is a lake of fire or merely the anscence of everything that is good. We do no favours to our nonchristians family and friends if we seek to make the idea of hell more user friendly.

Offline davetaff

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #13 on: May 01, 2018, 01:11:31 PM »
Hi John
Thanks for your reply you said
Quote
.     Dave,
         Can you be realistic and look at your neighbours, work mates and friends and identify those who are Christian and those who are not Christian. Now at death what will be the fate of those of the who are not Christian.
As non christians do you expect that they will be in heaven?  If they are not in heaven where are they   

Are you asking me to be judge over my fellow man what will happen to unbelievers God knows.
What do you think Christ's millennial reign is all about who will be rein over and why what is its purpose.
He has no need to reign over believers dose he so the only answer I can think of is he will reign over unbelievers he will set up his Kingdom all human rule will be put down and Christ will rein with a rod of iron.
The purpose of this will be to save as many as possible but it will still depend on the unbelievers freewill choice.

Quote
.o verses that speak of punishment and of eternity.
Matt 85:11 I say to you that many will come from the east and the west, and will take their places at the feast with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the subjects of the kingdom will be thrown outside, into the darkness, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.?

ecclesiastes 3:11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the human heart; yet no one can fathom what God has done from beginning to end       

The first verse you quote is Jesus speaking to the Jews he came to the Jews first it was after Pentecost that the word went to the Gentiles.
So what Jesus is saying is the many who are invited to the feast are the Gentiles the Jews were cast into darkness when they crucified our Lord and when they realise what they have done there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I don't see what the second verse you quote has to do with the subject in hand.

I will say again hell is the grave except when the word Gehenna is translated as hell.
Gehenna is a reference to the lake of fire which is the sea of believers who will reign with Christ for 1000 years.

The kind of hell that has been preached in the churches dose not exist
God is Love

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #14 on: May 01, 2018, 03:44:28 PM »
What do you think Christ's millennial reign is all about who will be rein over and why what is its purpose.
]
What Jesus will do on his return is not being discussed.
I've asked you to say what you think will happen and has happed to those nice, decent, polite, law abiding people who hate Jesus.

The point of Matt 8:11+12 is that those who do not accept Jesus will be outside of heaven, excluded from God and Jesus's prescence.
Again and again Jesus gives this sort of warning.

As to eccles, why put eternity in mans heart if man cannot realise it, ie if man doesn't have an eternal soul.


Offline davetaff

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #15 on: May 01, 2018, 06:28:36 PM »
Hi John
What Christ will do in the millennium has everything to do with your question what will happen to unbelievers they will have the opportunity to hear the gospel and make a choice.
This is what will happen to all the nice people who don't know God.
I'm not sure they hate Jesus they are just indifferent to him through lack of knowledge.

Quote
. The point of Matt 8:11+12 is that those who do not accept Jesus will be outside of heaven, excluded from God and Jesus's prescence.
Again and again Jesus gives this sort of warning     

I have answered this did you miss it the Gentiles will be invited to the feast the gospel is preached to the world Israel was throw into outer darkness when they crucified our Lord.Love
But all Israel will be saved.

Love and Peace
Dave


Welcome to the Biblical and Theology Section of 1Faith

[Raise a Debate] @ 1faith

Your post will be answered shortly

Raise a Debate - by posting bait !