Author Topic: Fate of unbelief  (Read 2744 times)

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Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #64 on: May 23, 2018, 12:35:22 PM »

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I would say that they equally apply to you and me as well as to the apostles.
As ROM 8.28 -30 says we are called by God to become like Jesus and that is what every Christian is intended task.

Do you really believe some Christian's are better in God's sight than others?

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #65 on: May 23, 2018, 02:59:50 PM »
I would say that they equally apply to you and me as well as to the apostles.
As ROM 8.28 -30 says we are called by God to become like Jesus and that is what every Christian is intended task.

Do you really believe some Christian's are better in God's sight than others?

Hi John
Thank you for your reply

Rom 8:28  And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
Rom 8:29  For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
Rom 8:30  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
     


From the above scripture we see its about those who are called not those who are chosen there is a difference I am not saying one is better than the other I do say we are all the same in Christ.


Gal 3:28  There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29  And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.       
 

love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #66 on: May 23, 2018, 04:02:57 PM »
Called, chosen, elected, predestined, it is all in the end the same.
Or do you think someone who is called is of more worth than someone who is elected?

We are all sinners saved by grace.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #67 on: May 25, 2018, 11:47:52 AM »
Called, chosen, elected, predestined, it is all in the end the same.
Or do you think someone who is called is of more worth than someone who is elected?

We are all sinners saved by grace.

Hi John
Did you not read my last post and the scriptures I posted which clearly states we are all the same in Christ .
What I am saying is we can arrive by different means those who are chosen and those who are called.

Let's put it this way say you are in your garden working and a complete stranger walks up to you and says follow me what would you do most probably tell him to get lost
But the apostles dropped everything left everything and followed Christ why I would say they had no choice there were disciples who left him but none of the apostles.
What I am saying in effect is that Christ overrode their freewill

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #68 on: May 25, 2018, 12:25:45 PM »
Sorry I miss read what you wrote, together with my own presupposition about what you were saying.

Offline francis drake

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #69 on: May 25, 2018, 08:34:45 PM »
Let's put it this way say you are in your garden working and a complete stranger walks up to you and says follow me what would you do most probably tell him to get lost
But the apostles dropped everything left everything and followed Christ why I would say they had no choice there were disciples who left him but none of the apostles.
What I am saying in effect is that Christ overrode their freewill.
He also called Judas Iscariot, whose freewill was never overridden.

The apostles had just as much freewill as anyone else, and you have shown nothing to prove otherwise.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #70 on: May 26, 2018, 09:17:27 AM »
He also called Judas Iscariot, whose freewill was never overridden.

The apostles had just as much freewill as anyone else, and you have shown nothing to prove otherwise.

Hi Frances

How about these words from our Lord

. Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you         

As for Judas

. Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil         

He was chosen

Read the conversion of St Paul and tell me he was not chosen.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline francis drake

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #71 on: May 26, 2018, 09:17:54 PM »
Hi Frances

How about these words from our Lord

. Joh 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you         

As for Judas

. Joh 6:70 Jesus answered them, Have not I chosen you twelve, and one of you is a devil         

He was chosen

Read the conversion of St Paul and tell me he was not chosen.

Love and Peace
Dave
You've grabbed the wrong end of the stick Dave. Of course Judas was chosen for a purpose in the ministry of Jesus, but his rebellion against God was entirely of his own freewill.

God of course knew the end from the beginning and was therefore able to make use of Judas's rebellion for His own purposes.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

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