Author Topic: Fate of unbelief  (Read 2149 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #32 on: May 07, 2018, 02:59:39 PM »

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Dave,
            "On the contrary I have said a few times I believe that's what the millennial rein of Christ is will about!"

Where did you get this nonsence from Dave. Reread the passages again as every passage that refers to the resurrection of the dead, in conection with Jesus's 2nd coming, also links that resurrection to jugement.

Nowhere in the bible is the idea found that after death there is a 2nd chance.

Hi John
Thanks for your reply of course there will be a judgement but I believe it has to be a fair judgement are you saying everyone who has never heared of Christ will be condemned because they are ignorant.
To be saved we have to have faith in Jesus we can't have faith in someone we do not know.

Quote
. Dave,
      "I thought the Jews had been cast into outer darkness and will not see the light until Christ's return."

If Jesus's sayiings only refer to the Jews where do we get our knowledge of salvation from?

The disciples took what Jesus taught to them and applied it to All people, so when Jesus talks  about people being cast into outer darkness, while he was talking to the Jews, his words can be applied to all who rejected him       

Jesus came as Israel's messiah there king his first objective was to preach to the Jews the passage you are referring to was for them they were the only ones who had the light that light was put out when they crucified our Lord.
All those living outside of Israel were already in darkness but they would have the opportunity to see the light.

. 5  The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles;

 16  The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung         


Love and Peace
Dave

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Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #33 on: May 08, 2018, 07:27:26 AM »
Dave,
          The bible says very clearly that All have sinned. That is that everyone is a sinner, an enemy of God.
You really need to study the gospel Dave and learn about God's grace in saving anyone.

No one has the right to demand of God or to expect anything from God except judgement.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #34 on: May 08, 2018, 02:32:34 PM »
Dave,
          The bible says very clearly that All have sinned. That is that everyone is a sinner, an enemy of God.
You really need to study the gospel Dave and learn about God's grace in saving anyone.

No one has the right to demand of God or to expect anything from God except judgement.

Hi John
Thanks for the reply yes there will be judgement I have never denied that but the judgement must be fair after all judgement is a two sided coin it can go two ways its not all one sided.

As for your last statement

Th 4:13  But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14  For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
1Th 4:15  For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
1Th 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17  Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1Th 4:18  Wherefore comfort one another with these word   


As we can see from the above these two groups do not come into judgement they have put on the righteousness of Christ God remembers there sins no more and these have a right to expect from God that he will do what he has promised.

Heb 8:12  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
     


LOve and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #35 on: May 09, 2018, 06:58:12 AM »
Dave,
            In what way is God's judgement, based on his perfect knowledge of every moment of a persons life and on his knoweledge of the reasons why they acted, going to be unfair.

God character and his own statements say that he is just.  So how do you prove that God is a liar.

Rermember you are saying that God judgement is not fair.

A basic principal of law, is that ignorance of the law is no excuse for breacking the law.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #36 on: May 09, 2018, 11:39:45 AM »
Dave,
            In what way is God's judgement, based on his perfect knowledge of every moment of a persons life and on his knoweledge of the reasons why they acted, going to be unfair.

God character and his own statements say that he is just.  So how do you prove that God is a liar.

Rermember you are saying that God judgement is not fair.

A basic principal of law, is that ignorance of the law is no excuse for breacking the law.

Hi John
Thank you for your reply
I never said God's judgement was unfair I did say he is a righteous judge so his judgement would be fair the scriptures tell us

.  26  For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus       

It is by faith in Jesus that we become children of God, how can those who have never heard of Jesus have faith in him?

I have never said God is a liar every word of scripture is true.

As for your last statement that is what man says but God says.

.   Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law       


So as we see God is very fair in dealing with mankind only Israel had the law and could brake the law.
The rest of humanity outside Israel broke the law and did not do according to the law but sin was not imputed to them because they did not have the law.

But this changes nothing it's only through faith in Jesus that we become children of God therefore everyone must hear the gospel if they are to have faith hence the millennium.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #37 on: May 09, 2018, 02:51:24 PM »
Dave,
              So what is your problem with God judging those who do not know him.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #38 on: May 10, 2018, 03:55:25 PM »
Dave,
              So what is your problem with God judging those who do not know him.

Hi John
I don't have a problem all I am saying is his judgement will be fair and righteous.
I was wondering what your views are you don't seam to give any only ask questions so I assume you agree with what I have said.

Love and Peace
Dave 

Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #39 on: May 11, 2018, 10:16:31 AM »
Dave,
        My answer in the thread new worlds is relevent.

God does not have to save anyone. We all deserve his judgement.
God shows love in not judging us and allowing us to live in his creation. As Romans 2:4 say do we presume upon the riches of his kindness and mercy, don't we realise that his kindness is meant to lead us to salvation.

You have things the wrong way round, looking at it from our view point.
Look at it from the point of an infinite Holy God. Our little sins are an infinite offence to an infinite Holy God and our hatred of him is worse.

From this view God is showing emence love and grace in letting us live.

You cannot have it both ways Dave. Either we are responcible for responding to God and responcible for the consquence of not responding.
                                                         OR
God over rides our will and saves those he has chosen before creation, leaving those he hasn't chosen to an eturnity with out God.
Either way you still have the consquence of not being a Christian.

That consquence is an eternal separation from God i.e. hell.

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