Author Topic: Fate of unbelief  (Read 2895 times)

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Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #16 on: May 02, 2018, 03:28:05 PM »

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Dave,
            There is No second chance for any one, if someone dies without jesus, they will spend eternity without him

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Offline davetaff

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2018, 06:09:31 PM »
Hi John
I am not talking of a second chance but a first chance the majority of the people who have ever lived have never heard of the God of the bible and many who have, have only heard fragments bit like we hear of other religions but know very little about them if God is to be fair and just then every one must have a good knowledge of the gospel.
I know I'm a silly old man who believes that God is Love and that love is the most important part of scripture and I am not alone even St Paul said

1Co 13:13  And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.     

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #18 on: May 03, 2018, 02:58:49 PM »
Dave,
            The bible says that 'All have Sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.'

Can you point to any verse that says anyone has a right to expect anything from God.

All of creation cries out that there is a God and as Jesus said those who seek will find.

God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners Jesus died for us.

Offline davetaff

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #19 on: May 03, 2018, 05:04:51 PM »
Hi John
You Said
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The bible says that 'All have Sinned and fallen short of the Glory of God.'
   
Cant argue with that and all sins can be forgiven

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Can you point to any verse that says anyone has a right to expect anything from God.   

Heb 6:13  For when God made promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by himself,
Heb 6:14  Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will multiply thee.
Heb 6:15  And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the promise.
 Gen 22:16  And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
Gen 22:17  That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
Gen 22:18  And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
   


We see God promises to bless Abraham and Abraham has a right to expect god to keep his promise no matter what which he dose of course.
the seed mentioned in Gen 22:18 is our Lord Jesus Christ this is part of God promise to Abraham which he has kept for Israel and for us and we expect God to keep that promise with our Lords second coming We expect God to Keep these wonderful promises.

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All of creation cries out that there is a God and as Jesus said those who seek will find.     
 

This is very true but we still need to be told which God has  done the creating.

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God shows his love for us in that while we were still sinners Jesus died for us       

we can certainly agree on this

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #20 on: May 03, 2018, 06:09:46 PM »
Point taken that Christians can trust God to keep his promises.
 
                                            But

That does not mean that non christians can expect God to be a 'fairy godmother' and grant them wishes, or has any right to expect God to shower them with the blessings that he does grant them and us.

Offline francis drake

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2018, 12:07:02 AM »
I am not talking of a second chance but a first chance the majority of the people who have ever lived have never heard of the God of the bible

That's not true Dave. Paul makes it clear that there are no excuses because God reveals himself to everyone.
Romans1v18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2018, 03:39:33 PM »
That's not true Dave. Paul makes it clear that there are no excuses because God reveals himself to everyone.
Romans1v18For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse.

Hi Frances
welcome to the discussion I was wondering do you read the scriptures you post because in verse 18 it plainly states men who suppress the truth
to supress the truth one has to know the truth Paul was writing to the church in Rome many of them were former Jews they all knew the truth and to prove his point he used creation to prove that the God of the bible was the creator and only God.

And I see you have missed out verse 21

Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
 


Again he makes in plain that the people he is talking about are those who have been instructed in the truth of the bible and Know about God.

or are you saying that there is no need to preach the gospel we just need to look at creation and we would Know everything we need to Know about God and Christ if that's the case why did Christ send his apostles out into all the world to preach the Gospel if there was no need.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline francis drake

Re: Fate of unbelief
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2018, 11:58:27 PM »
Hi Frances
welcome to the discussion I was wondering do you read the scriptures you post
Romans1 is one of my favourite scriptures Dave, one that I have studied and prayed about for years. However it looks like you're the one who didn't read it fully before challenging me.
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because in verse 18 it plainly states men who suppress the truth
to supress the truth one has to know the truth Paul was writing to the church in Rome many of them were former Jews
I agree that to suppress the truth, they first have to know the truth Dave, however they were not Jews but Gentiles as stated in Rom1v5 through whom we have received grace and apostleship unto obedience of faith among all the Gentiles on behalf of His name, 6among whom are you also, called of Jesus Christ.
also in verse 13........................that I might have some fruit among you also, even as among the other Gentiles.
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they all knew the truth and to prove his point he used creation to prove that the God of the bible was the creator and only God.
It was not the bible that proved God, but the obvious evidence of creation itself, and that's why God grants nobody any excuses for rejecting the sovereignty of God.
Rom1v20For from the creation of the world His invisible qualities, both His eternal power and divinity, are clearly seen, being understood by the things made, for them to be without excuse.
As can be seen, all men from creation onwards have been able to see the handiwork of the creator.
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And I see you have missed out verse 21

Rom 1:21  Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
 


Again he makes in plain that the people he is talking about are those who have been instructed in the truth of the bible and Know about God.
Utter nonsense Dave. Romans1 says nothing about being instructed in the bible.
Paul is making it as clear as day that all men have sufficient evidence to accept that God alone created the world and that they should surrender to his sovereignty.
God will grant no excuses for those who suppress the evidence they see around them.
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or are you saying that there is no need to preach the gospel we just need to look at creation and we would Know everything we need to Know about God and Christ if that's the case why did Christ send his apostles out into all the world to preach the Gospel if there was no need.
Don't put words in my mouth Dave. I have spelled out many times on the forum why we should preach the gospel.
The Gospel is not aimed at the unregenerate, but those who are already God's children. You can see this in Acts10 when the Lord sent Peter to Cornelius, who was already a born again saint of the Lord long before Peter arrived.

The Gospel is about the power of God in a believer's life, although when you look at the worldliness and defeat in the lives of most Christians, you'd never know it.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

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