Author Topic: War and Peace  (Read 2423 times)

Description: the futility of war

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Offline John

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #56 on: April 04, 2018, 02:22:03 PM »

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Dave,
           If we love Jersus then we will obey him and seek to serve him.
That does not mean turning ourbacks onpolitics or in serving as part of the government as civil servants, in the armed forces, police. nhs etc etc.

No where are we commanded not to kill. The command is not to murder.

So a Christian has to decide for themselves whether they are justified in serving in the armed forces etc and whether to be active in defending this country.
As I said earlier if Christians turn their backs on politics and political debate, just what do you think will happen in this country?


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Offline John

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #57 on: April 04, 2018, 02:29:58 PM »
Dave read the article about uthanaisa and particlularly,
Baroness Butler-Sloss, a former High Court judge, said: ?The safeguards provide no real protection to the truly vulnerable and they will fall apart if this bill becomes law.?
and the section where a doctor who killed a patient who was saying she did not want to die and who a court found that the doctor acted in good faith.

Do you really want Christians not to be involved in politics even though it will mean discussing or supporting going to war against an agressor.

Offline francis drake

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #58 on: April 04, 2018, 04:41:54 PM »
As I said earlier if Christians turn their backs on politics and political debate, just what do you think will happen in this country?

If Christians turn their backs on politics, then Satan rules the nation through his servants.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #59 on: April 04, 2018, 05:28:43 PM »
Hi Lads
Don't have much time er in doors wants the bedroom painted so will have to make it a quick answer.

Frances you said the law has not changed and that is correct but the writer of Hebrews tells us when Christ became high priest there was a change in the law you seamed to have ignored this.
Our Lord said the law will remain until all things had been fulfilled which sounds to me that the law may well be a prophecy.

John
I have no problem obeying the civil authorities so long as they do not contradict our Lord's command to love.
If I understand you correctly you are saying I should always obey the government no matter what they command.
I have done 6years service for queen and country but luckely not in armed conflict.
I believe in obeying my Lord and King before any man or political party.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #60 on: April 04, 2018, 05:40:08 PM »
I've been reading about how Christians were treated behind the iron curtain.
Those who witnessed to others and wre arrested faced years of imprisonment, re education and beatings and other torture because they were Christian and would not renounce their faith.

In refusing to defend the rights we have in this country we risk this happening here.

It will never happen here!  Grow up and look.

Christians have lost their jobs because they were Christian. That has happened in this country with in the last few years.

The head of offsted regards secular liberalism as being nearer to the historic British values then Christianity.
Already teachers have to say that the lies of lgbt are actualyl true and there is a real chance that an oath of equality will be introduced. Do you know young people thinking of a career in teaching or in government? If it comes into force they will have to swear to support lgbt in the equality oath.

So minimal responce to educate onesself about this and start praying.

Ideally to log in and sign the pettition and to be active in spreading the gospel.

Offline francis drake

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #61 on: April 04, 2018, 06:09:27 PM »
Hi Lads
Don't have much time er in doors wants the bedroom painted so will have to make it a quick answer.

Frances you said the law has not changed and that is correct but the writer of Hebrews tells us when Christ became high priest there was a change in the law you seamed to have ignored this.
Our Lord said the law will remain until all things had been fulfilled which sounds to me that the law may well be a prophecy.
You are mixing man's personal relationship with Christ, with the way God commanded us to deal with man's sin (in his relationship with his fellow man.)
The righteousness we receive in freely Christ does not absolve us from being found guilty for offenses under the law (Moses or UK statute).

ie. Despite my perfect righteousness in Christ, I got a speeding ticket last year, resulting in a fine and points on my licence.
As you see, the law still applies to Christians, but in your theology, I should have argued with the magistrate that Christ counted me innocent!
My fine is simply part of rendering unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.

As I stated previously, Law and Grace run concurrently from Genesis to Revelation. Forgiveness and Justice run concurrently also, as my speeding ticket proved. I am innocent in Christ, but guilty by law. That's justice, and without justice, no matter how flawed, the nation cannot survive.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #62 on: April 05, 2018, 05:35:30 PM »
I've been reading about how Christians were treated behind the iron curtain.
Those who witnessed to others and wre arrested faced years of imprisonment, re education and beatings and other torture because they were Christian and would not renounce their faith.

In refusing to defend the rights we have in this country we risk this happening here.

It will never happen here!  Grow up and look.

Christians have lost their jobs because they were Christian. That has happened in this country with in the last few years.

The head of offsted regards secular liberalism as being nearer to the historic British values then Christianity.
Already teachers have to say that the lies of lgbt are actualyl true and there is a real chance that an oath of equality will be introduced. Do you know young people thinking of a career in teaching or in government? If it comes into force they will have to swear to support lgbt in the equality oath.

So minimal responce to educate onesself about this and start praying.

Ideally to log in and sign the pettition and to be active in spreading the gospel.

Hi John
Thank you for your reply You seam surprised that the world is going to the dogs we have been told By our lord that this will happen and I am sure you have read the relevant passages.
we cannot change what has been prophesied but we must remain faithful to our lord jest as our brothers and sisters in Russia have done and many others through out the world have suffered for their faith but be sure they will receive their reward God is faithful.

Quote
In refusing to defend the rights we have in this country we risk this happening here     


But my argument is should we defend our rights by breaking the Laws of Love given by our lord by Killing others who are our enemies whom we are told to love.

Would Passive resistance by a huge number be more effective I am talking about world wide not jest this country Christianity is a world wide organisation and if united in one body has great power.

You play with the words murder and killing to justify killing others the law said thou shalt not kill but we are not under the law but under grace and we are commanded to Love.

Mat 5:43  Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45  That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Mat 22:37  Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
Mat 22:38  This is the first and great commandment.
Mat 22:39  And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Mat 22:40  On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
 Luk 6:27  But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,
Luk 6:28  Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.
Luk 6:29  And unto him that smiteth thee on the one cheek offer also the other; and him that taketh away thy cloke forbid not to take thy coat also.
Luk 6:30  Give to every man that asketh of thee; and of him that taketh away thy goods ask them not again.
Luk 6:31  And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise.
Luk 6:32  For if ye love them which love you, what thank have ye? for sinners also love those that love them.

Are you saying we should ignore all the above and obey Mrs May when she commands us to kill.

LOve and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #63 on: April 05, 2018, 05:48:58 PM »
Dave,
    "You play with the words murder and killing to justify killing others the law said thou shalt not kill but we are not under the law but under grace and we are commanded to Love."

These words have precice meanings both in the bible and in law. If anyone is playing with them it is you.

While we cannot change whatGod has planned, we can and should be active in promoting Christianity.

Christianity is more than just believing in Jesus. It involves living for him and living for him means influencing the world we live in.

You talk about passive resitance to violence. I'm aware of only one insyance in history where passive reitance achieved anything and that was Gandhis campiegn for Indian independance against an emphire that had already decidedto give independance.

Against a force prepared to use lethal violence passive resitance just provides target practice.

The sermon on the mount is addressed to individuals, not to nations or governments.

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