Author Topic: War and Peace  (Read 2232 times)

Description: the futility of war

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Offline davetaff

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Re: War and Peace
« Reply #40 on: March 30, 2018, 11:41:39 AM »

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Dave, do you agree with the execution of proven murderers. Or should they be just imprisoned?
I am not referring to wartime or accidental killings, just murderers in the conventional meaning of the word.

Hi Frances
Thanks for your post no I don't agree with killing murders if we kill them we become like them all killing is against the laws of love as layer down by our lord Jesus Christ to love our neighbours and to love our enemies you can't love some one and then kill them.

Love and peace
Dave

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Offline francis drake

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #41 on: March 30, 2018, 01:07:57 PM »

Thanks Francis

I am posting for the gerneral public , to understand.

I am sorry you are confused
I suspected as such, but it just creates confusion.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: War and Peace
« Reply #42 on: March 30, 2018, 05:17:52 PM »
Dave,
           To be blunt, it is not what you see or think that matters, nor what I think, but what God has told us.
The bible makes the distinction between the taking of human life for personal reasons, by accident or for legal reasons.

Only the first is murder. the second is manslaughter the third is a legal exceution, killing in war or self defence.

In an ideal world these would not happen.

Hi John
Thank you for your reply you said
Quote
To be blunt, it is not what you see or think that matters, nor what I think, but what God has told us.
     
I can agree with you on this 100% Its what you say in the rest of your post I would like explaining do you have any scripture to back up these statements.
The laws of Love as given by our Lord would in my eyes negate the consequences of the laws given to Moses but the law still tells us what sin is but now we are offered forgiveness instead of punishment if we repent.

the 1st world war was triggered by the shooting of Austrian prince Ferdinand and his wife for this act of murder 17 million people had to die do you think that God was approving of this mass slaughter of as you call it legal killing.
It was an act of gross stupidity I would think that out of those 17 million there were millions of Christians on both sides killing each other did God turn a blind eye because it was legal Killing.

Same sort of thing is happening now with this Russian spy business building up tension between east and west is worth killing millions of people across Europe for jest two people will the human race never learn.

is there any proof of God ordering a Country to go to war after Christs ascension.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #43 on: March 31, 2018, 12:51:36 AM »
Hi John
Thank you for your reply you saidI can agree with you on this 100% Its what you say in the rest of your post I would like explaining do you have any scripture to back up these statements.
The laws of Love as given by our Lord would in my eyes negate the consequences of the laws given to Moses but the law still tells us what sin is but now we are offered forgiveness instead of punishment if we repent.

the 1st world war was triggered by the shooting of Austrian prince Ferdinand and his wife for this act of murder 17 million people had to die do you think that God was approving of this mass slaughter of as you call it legal killing.
It was an act of gross stupidity I would think that out of those 17 million there were millions of Christians on both sides killing each other did God turn a blind eye because it was legal Killing.

Same sort of thing is happening now with this Russian spy business building up tension between east and west is worth killing millions of people across Europe for jest two people will the human race never learn.

is there any proof of God ordering a Country to go to war after Christs ascension.

Love and Peace
Dave


Yes

Offline John

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #44 on: March 31, 2018, 07:01:05 AM »
Dave,
           "is there any proof of God ordering a Country to go to war after Christs ascension."
An irrelevent question.  Christianity applies to individuals not tribes, people groups or nations.
As Paul says in Romans we are to give respect, honour obedience and taxes to the authorities.

To what extent we obey is down to our understanding of the legalities and the spiritual implications.

You like historical illistrations, so we'll look at the WW1.
The trigger was the assisination of the arch duke, but the continuation was German belligerence, breaking treaty of neutrality. If we had not joined France they would have reshapped europe and in opposing there aggression we were right.

In modern times driving sadam out of kwaite was right, subsquent operations are more questionable, but the aim has not been conquesty but to try and create peace.

From what you've said you are against how the bible defines murder and killing and you are against nations defenfing there cityzens how do you equate that with loving others if you permit them to be attacked by bullies etc.

Offline davetaff

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Re: War and Peace
« Reply #45 on: April 01, 2018, 04:02:39 PM »
Dave,
           "is there any proof of God ordering a Country to go to war after Christs ascension."
An irrelevent question.  Christianity applies to individuals not tribes, people groups or nations.
As Paul says in Romans we are to give respect, honour obedience and taxes to the authorities.

To what extent we obey is down to our understanding of the legalities and the spiritual implications.

You like historical illistrations, so we'll look at the WW1.
The trigger was the assisination of the arch duke, but the continuation was German belligerence, breaking treaty of neutrality. If we had not joined France they would have reshapped europe and in opposing there aggression we were right.

In modern times driving sadam out of kwaite was right, subsquent operations are more questionable, but the aim has not been conquesty but to try and create peace.

From what you've said you are against how the bible defines murder and killing and you are against nations defenfing there cityzens how do you equate that with loving others if you permit them to be attacked by bullies etc.

Hi John
Thank you for your reply thought we could look at what Paul had to say.

Rom 13:1  Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.
Rom 13:2  Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.
Rom 13:3  For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:
Rom 13:4  For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.
   


I don't have a problem with this all he is saying is live quite peaceful lives obey the laws of the land and it will go well with you and that's fine.
but when the ruling body commands you to go out and kill others then that contradicts our Lords command to love one another and to love our enemies you cant love some one and then go and kill them.

as for WW1 all it would have taken to avoid the conflict was for the ruling parties to forgive each other the reason we have most wars is stupid pride no one is willing to say sorry or say I'm wrong forgive me.

Lets take a example from our Lord.

Mat 26:52  Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.
Mat 26:53  Thinkest thou that I cannot now pray to my Father, and he shall presently give me more than twelve legions of angels?
   


we can see here that the sword is not the answer you cannot achieve peace through violence killing and violence only breads more of the same thoughts of hatred and revenge.
if violence was the answer Christ would have used the twelve legions of angels but he did not he went like a lamb to the slaughter to show us a better way.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline francis drake

Re: War and Peace
« Reply #46 on: April 01, 2018, 11:43:31 PM »
Hi Dave, you didn't answer this when I posted it a few days back.-
Quote
Dave, do you agree with the execution of proven murderers. Or should they be just imprisoned?
I am not referring to wartime or accidental killings, just murderers in the conventional meaning of the word.

So what do you think?
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: War and Peace
« Reply #47 on: April 02, 2018, 10:24:24 AM »
Hi Frances
I did answer your post but it seams you missed it so here it is again.


Quote from: francis drake on March 30, 2018, 09:57:33 AM
Dave, do you agree with the execution of proven murderers. Or should they be just imprisoned?
I am not referring to wartime or accidental killings, just murderers in the conventional meaning of the word.

Hi Frances
Thanks for your post no I don't agree with killing murders if we kill them we become like them all killing is against the laws of love as layer down by our lord Jesus Christ to love our neighbours and to love our enemies you can't love some one and then kill them.

Love and peace
Dave

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