Author Topic: Forgiveness, unconditionally  (Read 3626 times)

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Offline John

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2018, 11:12:33 AM »
Hi Dave,
                    That forgiveness would be available for them as for everyone, on their repentance.


Yes it is important to love an enemy. Fortunetly very few of us actualy have enemies, instead we have to deal with the unknown criminal or faceless operator who ruins some aspect of life.


Offline davetaff

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2018, 11:29:39 AM »
Hi Dave,
                    That forgiveness would be available for them as for everyone, on their repentance.


Yes it is important to love an enemy. Fortunetly very few of us actualy have enemies, instead we have to deal with the unknown criminal or faceless operator who ruins some aspect of life.

Hi John
Have been thinking who is our enemies there are a lot of nice people out there who are unbelievers and deny the God we love are they our enemies and Gods enemies

. 50  And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us       

So if someone denies God and Jesus are they enemies Of God and do we have an obligation to try and change there mind.
It's not jest those who do us wrong who are our enemies but everyone who denies that Jesus Christ is the son of Go


Love and peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #10 on: April 07, 2018, 03:46:48 PM »
"So if someone denies God and Jesus are they enemies Of God and do we have an obligation to try and change there mind.
It's not jest those who do us wrong who are our enemies but everyone who denies that Jesus Christ is the son of God."

Interesting question. Are those who are not Christian our enemies?

They are certainly enemies of God, but not our enemies. They like us are sinners and need to understand their condition and need of a saviour.

So as you say we should be friend the non christian.


Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2018, 01:15:47 AM »
But then we remember 2 Corinthians 6:14  Do not be yoked together with unbelievers. For what do righteousness and wickedness have in common? Or what fellowship can light have with darkness?

Then you reply "Love is action"...

True we can know God's Love for a person that makes our live's a living hell...

That does mean we conform [do as they do] although they can drag us down so that it can seem we  do... and are as and like them...

You may argue "as long as we do not conform to the world" but by Loving which is an action  and allowing God to convert them [we can conform/ become compromised - or are we ? ] as Paul stated ....


1 Corinthians 9:19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God?s law but am under Christ?s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.




An arguement is found between believers of the way....  notice how certain people are no longer mentioned in the book od Acts "written by Paul]

Yes you see division [In scripture] not yoked  together [but still doing God's work/Yoked]


Where am I ...  quote @John ...
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"So if someone denies God and Jesus are they enemies Of God and do we have an obligation to try and change there mind.
It's not jest those who do us wrong who are our enemies but everyone who denies that Jesus Christ is the son of God."

Interesting question. Are those who are not Christian our enemies?

They are certainly enemies of God, but not our enemies. They like us are sinners and need to understand their condition and need of a saviour.

So as you say we should be friend the non christian.

Interseting topic because those closest to us can affect us the most... so let's go to real life [not that the bible or God is not real life] and say "my son goes crazy at the age of 16 and does everything that is against my lifestyle and belief system....


  I have no choice but to do a mixture of the above .....

The funny thinbg is that God may lead him back or he may never come back and I may go the extra mile by conforming to his ways / compomise [to win him back] but in truth - he may never come back...



Introducing different arguments from life arguing with scripture...



Hello apologetics...

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2018, 01:50:07 AM »
Okay let me come from a difrerent angle and place...


Proverbs 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go,And when he is old he will not depart from it.


Not so - you find while you act out scripture - the evidence is not so [as children rebel  will rebel ] usung scripture I suppose I can use Matthew 10:21  "Brother will betray brother to death, and a father his child; children will rebel against their parents and have them put to death.


So you begin to argue within youself  [ how far should I go to save my son]

Of cause the logical answer  is  "all the way" which would mean you become  "Him"

That does not work because he is fleeing / rejecting/ after he has his own free will...


Proverbs 22:6  Start children off on the way they should go, and even when they are old they will not turn from it.


Then you find that they may not continue in this way ...

You try to reach out to them and apply "the  prodical son approach" and they use this for their own benefit...

Applying and doing the Word/Word/ does not work - oops.

Indeed it acts agaisnt them - while you continuie to try to draw them out...

While their will may well decide to return to the father /family/ - they well may not decide to return...


Now I might suggest you are unequally yoked with an unbeliever "against your will" [as they are family]

You have no choice...I state my argument....



[now you will argue using scripture or your own experience.... but you are not arguing the expereince of other but merely wearing blinders - of your own view...

And this is not unconditioinal - is it ?

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #13 on: April 09, 2018, 12:15:53 AM »
Being real is using scripture and the heart [where you are at]

"Follow Me"  is stand in my place" not sure we could ever stnad in Jesus's place"

But it seems this is exactly what Jesus is saying...

When heal - He is healing-  when you pray - He is praying.... when you feel - He feels and so on.

Come follow me "means walk where I walk - step in my steps"

I used to believe and live by "we live in a continious state of forgiveness"

This was until God took me to a point where I broke...  and my theology broke up... it happened time and time again... while living out the Word/word...



I decided to stop theology and just let God be God... funny thing is "I think and see and we saw -  Jesus doing the same in scripture"


BTW  the message @ Chch today ...   "Come follow me"...

I am reminded of the rich young ruler .. who was purposely brought in the path of the Son of God - Jesus...

We know that this young man's wealth was greater to him than anything else [he had inherited it] it was seen as God's blessing at that time and in that culture and still is in our culture...... but this  young man missed the mark and did not step where Christ stepped / he was still in the old and not in the new [he had not moved/stepped/ made a chnage]


Not sure what you do when family repel you - when you have  non Christians/enemies/  in your own family ...

Not how you react.. I supposely makes a man  the "perfect  answer is " Jesus can do it and the other one is " Jesus is the answer for te world"  and sounds good [much like - : "Early to bed and early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy, and wise".

Which is total nonsense...




Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2018, 12:34:49 AM »
No our forgiveness is often based on our own principles and moral code - mingled with scripture to suit our us..

As Apostle Paul stated :   Romans 7:15  I do not understand what I do. For what I want to do I do not do, but what I hate I do

Paul  trying to walk in Jesus footsteps.... quote...  and respond/act/today/







Offline John

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #15 on: April 12, 2018, 08:46:18 AM »
T J,
        As a Christian with nonchristian family and friends all one can do is to live a Christ like life, to explain when asked why you won't go to or do certain shows acts etc be willing to challenge their beliefs and presuppasitions.

Yes it will loose friends upset family.

We are called to be light in a dark world and salt in a corupt world.

It is all in how one does this.