Author Topic: Forgiveness, unconditionally  (Read 2861 times)

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Offline davetaff

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #72 on: November 02, 2018, 02:25:56 PM »
Hi John
Thank you for your reply we can make hypothetical cases all day long but it dose not alter one word of scripture our Lords command is love your enemies in so doing maybe we can make peace.

While we were still sinners Christ died for us in so doing God offers us forgiveness whether we take advantage of this wonderful offer is entirely up to us to accept of our own free will.

Love and Peace
Dave
     

Offline John

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #73 on: November 02, 2018, 06:17:40 PM »
Dave,
           I gave an illistration of a real case not a hyperthetical one.
So please tell me how the Mother of a young women who vanished while at work should behave.
If you don't follow the news type bbc into google and find any murder news item and  tell me how the relatives should behave?

Offline davetaff

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #74 on: November 04, 2018, 04:27:54 PM »
Dave,
           I gave an illistration of a real case not a hyperthetical one.
So please tell me how the Mother of a young women who vanished while at work should behave.
If you don't follow the news type bbc into google and find any murder news item and  tell me how the relatives should behave?

Hi John
Its not my place to say what others may do or not do if you want me to say fight evil with evil then I cant it goes against the teachings of our Lord.
And I think he is saying fight evil with love yes it is very easy to write these words but to carry them out is a different matter all together what would I do in such circumstances to be quite honest I don't know and hope and prey I never have to make that decision.
The human race has proved beyond a shadow of a doubt the fighting evil with evil dose not work it only creates more evil its remembrance day again when we remember all those who died I think it should include everyone who died in all conflicts and what we need to remember is make sure that nothing so evil ever happens again.
I know there are still conflicts going on around the world and I also know they will never bring peace what can we say to all this " come Lord Jesus Come "

Love and Peace
Dave
       

Offline John

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #75 on: November 04, 2018, 04:39:22 PM »
No true Dave,
                   You expect a Christian in the position of Suzie Lampughs mother to over forgiveness even though there is No biblical instruction to do so when there is no repentance.

This is what we've been arguing about.

Jesus when crucified did not forgive his murders, but handed them over to his Father for him to deal with.

We have to do the same.

Offline francis drake

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #76 on: November 04, 2018, 06:03:17 PM »

Take the detective case in the news the Suzie Lampugh murder. How should the Mother have respomded 30 years ago?
Should she have publicly said I forgive this unknown person who has taken my dayghter and done who knows what.
Or should she have committed this person to God for him  to deal with?

There was a case a decade or so back.
A girl was sexually assaulted and the young man who did it was on trial. The parents of the girl were Christians and pleaded with the judge not to destroy the young man's life by jailing him. The judge commended to parents' forgiveness and put the man on probation.


Whilst on probation he then raped and murdered another young woman. The second set of parents were not merely heart broken but furious against the moronic Christians who had persuaded the judge to release the perpetrator back into society with the mindset that he could do what he liked and get away with it.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #77 on: November 05, 2018, 02:41:56 PM »
No true Dave,
                   You expect a Christian in the position of Suzie Lampughs mother to over forgiveness even though there is No biblical instruction to do so when there is no repentance.

This is what we've been arguing about.

Jesus when crucified did not forgive his murders, but handed them over to his Father for him to deal with.

We have to do the same.

Hi John
Thanks for your reply How about these verses.

Mat 6:14  For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15  But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
Mar 11:25  And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Mar 11:26  But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.
Luk 6:37  Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
     


So if we do not forgive then the Father will not forgive us.


You said
Quote
Jesus when crucified did not forgive his murders, but handed them over to his Father for him to deal with.

       

But John its only the father who dose forgive and when Christ asked the father to forgive them they were forgiven Christ made forgiveness possible through the shedding of his blood when we are sprinkled with the blood we are cleansed and the Father can forgive us.


Love and Peace

Dave






Offline davetaff

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #78 on: November 05, 2018, 02:50:58 PM »
There was a case a decade or so back.
A girl was sexually assaulted and the young man who did it was on trial. The parents of the girl were Christians and pleaded with the judge not to destroy the young man's life by jailing him. The judge commended to parents' forgiveness and put the man on probation.


Whilst on probation he then raped and murdered another young woman. The second set of parents were not merely heart broken but furious against the moronic Christians who had persuaded the judge to release the perpetrator back into society with the mindset that he could do what he liked and get away with it.

Hi Frances
so shall the good the Christian parents did be evil spoken of because someone else committed an evil act they were only following what our Lord commanded to Love thy neighbour they can not be held responsible for what others do.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #79 on: November 05, 2018, 09:25:06 PM »
Dave,
           What evidence is there that they were forgiven?
What evidence is there that they repented?
All we know is that Jesus did not forgive them and that he committed them to his Father.