Author Topic: Forgiveness, unconditionally  (Read 1958 times)

Description:

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #40 on: June 16, 2018, 01:57:14 AM »
It does'nt mean that God  did'nt know it happened..

As  He is the all knowing God...


But it means the blood of Jesus has covered it...

You can do the same thing with the blood of Jesus - but you cannot blot out sin...

You will always remember and those memories will always affect you - but you   can give those memories to Jesus ...

Whether He forgives depends on whether these people who offended you are covered by His Blood...


In other words - you are now fiogiven and you have released yourself - yet they may still be in their sin/bondage/

They must now release themselves - however they still remember - as do you- and you may still be haunted by these memories for as long as you live - but God may have forgotten this [as the two forgve]





I want now to turn to  2 Samuel 12: 1-5   - The Lord sent Nathan to David. When he came to David, he said, ?There were two men in a city. One was rich, but the other was poor. 2 The rich man had many sheep and cattle. 3 But the poor man had nothing except one little female lamb he had bought. The poor man fed the lamb, and it grew up with him and his children. It shared his food and drank from his cup and slept in his arms. The lamb was like a daughter to him.

4 ?Then a traveler stopped to visit the rich man. The rich man wanted to feed the traveler, but he didn?t want to take one of his own sheep or cattle. Instead, he took the lamb from the poor man and cooked it for his visitor.?

5 David became very angry at the rich man. He said to Nathan, ?As surely as the Lord lives, the man who did this should die! 6 He must pay for the lamb four times for doing such a thing. He had no mercy!?


God did not forget Davids deed - but forgot it after a sacrifce and forgave...  King David...

King David never forgot about this.... hence it is written in scripture for all to see...

In the same way you are like King David.... chosen ,,, but you have sinned  [how have you sinned ? against God or people ?]

God has justified you as He did with King David...


But did the son ever have a chance !

Did Uriah the husband of bathsheba - ever have a chance to forgive?

Did the army under orders,  have a chance to vindiacate their actions ?

So many unanswered questions...

Tis not so simple as black and white - is it ?




In our own culture - we see Bathsheba as the deceiving one and we see the man as drawn in...

We see the army of King David as the enemy or maybe simply following orders...

I wonder how God saw it and see's it..


Scripture doen not tell us - but focuses on King David and his release ... [as he repents] before the blood of Jesus was shed.....




Now consider all your thoughts/actions/ intentions/ motivations/ in your life / spread out before you... in a landscape before your own eyes....

This is what you will see / when you meet the Living God...

Once you are dead - but made alive...


He is far above us and our thoughts...


He can blow your mind or destroy your intentions...




..

Offline francis drake

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #41 on: June 16, 2018, 09:24:02 AM »

The word repent only means change your mind all Peter is saying is change your mind and accept the gospel then get baptised when we get baptised we die  and our sins die with us and we are reborn into the body of Christ.
Repentance is not just about accepting the gospel Dave. Its a daily choice of letting go of our man centred lifestyle and letting God reign and direct us.
1Jn1v8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.?

I sin, you sin, each and every day, just as it says above.
But sinning isn't about doing something wicked like murder or rape, it simply means falling short or missing the mark/target in our attempts at being perfect. Like Adam, we always try to do things from a Tree of Knowledge viewpoint using our brain instead of our spirit. 

Col3v3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.


Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1814
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 51 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #42 on: June 17, 2018, 12:48:45 PM »
Repentance is not just about accepting the gospel Dave. Its a daily choice of letting go of our man centred lifestyle and letting God reign and direct us.
1Jn1v8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.?

I sin, you sin, each and every day, just as it says above.
But sinning isn't about doing something wicked like murder or rape, it simply means falling short or missing the mark/target in our attempts at being perfect. Like Adam, we always try to do things from a Tree of Knowledge viewpoint using our brain instead of our spirit. 

Col3v3For you died, and your life is now hidden with Christ in God.


Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply there is much I can agree with the point I was trying to make was what happens with baptism and I am not talking about sprinkling water on a babies head.
When we are washed with the word of God and die with Christ we are reborn we become babes in Christ our old sins die with us we become new creatures in the body of Christ.
Yes we will sin again but if we confess our sins then we will be forgiven.
All depends on how we view baptism I believe it is a spiritual happening it's the water of the word of God that cleanses us not the water sprinkled by the priest.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Sharky and George

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 65
  • Total likes: 0
  • Thanked: 2 times
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #43 on: June 17, 2018, 02:29:11 PM »
Tes Johnson:
Quote
God did not forget Davids deed - but forgot it after a sacrifce and forgave...  King David...

King David never forgot about this.... hence it is written in scripture for all to see...

Your right, he was forgiven - for a massive sin as well.
I am sure you know already but just saying that back in the old covenant before Jesus died, we had to offer sacrifices but now we are forgiven when we pray;
Davetaff:
Quote
Yes we will sin again but if we confess our sins then we will be forgiven.

Which brings to mind 1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, He will forgive our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness".
Both spot on.

Talking about David, he was a man actually after God's heart, writing poetry to Him, praying deeply when alone and on the run from his enemies and much more. Must be amazing to have a relationship with God like that.


If you ever think that you won't be forgiven for a sin that you have done as a Christian (no ticket to sin btw), then think of what David did.
Dave commited adultery and got someone else to kill the husband while the husband was fighting in a war he should have been in all whilst he sat at home eating lobster.

Oh my days!

Offline francis drake

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #44 on: June 17, 2018, 10:49:14 PM »
I am sure you know already but just saying that back in the old covenant before Jesus died, we had to offer sacrifices but now we are forgiven when we pray;
There's no difference between forgiveness in the OT and in the NT. They are both based on the same blood sacrifice.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline John

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #45 on: June 18, 2018, 08:55:59 AM »
Forgiveness (not holding any grudge) is essential to be a joyful Christian (not in torment) - sets a Christian free from torment.
Who are we not to forgive others if we have been forgiven.
It is right that we should be put in a spiritual torment until we forgive from the heart (proper forgiveness) - this is written in the unjust manager part in the gospels.

Keep short accounts with God and you will feel spiritually pukka.

If you find it hard to forgive then maybe imagine that the person who sinned against you was upset/hurting (that is what made them do it). Maybe imagine them crying so that you find it easier to have empathy when you pray "Father I forgive them, please forgive me for my sin".



Something I wondered about - the scripture that love covers offenses. I wonder if we can love someone to cover for the spiritual torment deserved after sin (unforgiveness is a sin) until we forgive. Anyone got any ideas about that? I am not sure yet - I just try and forgive ASAP.




So naff off! Only messing lol :)

Can you point to any scripture that says that God forgives anyone without there saying sorry/repenting of there sin?

May I suggest you read about Corrie ten Boon and learn something about suffering.
How would you deal with the murderer of your sister/brother.
She saw this happen in a the concentration camp they were in and years after the war while leading an evamgelistic meeting she met that guard. Now a Christian and coming to her to ask for forgiveness.

I'll remind you Ggod does not forgive anyone who has not repented.

So it is a Pharisaical idea to insist that suffering people extend forgiveness to an unrepentant offender.
Why should Christiand do what God doesn't do?

Offline davetaff

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1814
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 51 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #46 on: June 18, 2018, 11:54:40 AM »
Hi John
Like I said in a previous post God makes the first move so should we.
Let's put it this way you fall out with a friend you have a blazing row and go your separate ways you think you are in the right and he  should say sorry and he thinks the same who should make the first move you or him.
It's the same with God we have all sinned against him but he did not wait for us to confess our sins and say sorry before he offered us forgiveness through Christ's sacrifice whether we accept or reject it is another matter but his love and forgiveness is always there for those who wish to partake of it.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline John

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #47 on: June 19, 2018, 06:56:40 AM »
Dave,
             You are agreeing with me, by saying that the offending party has to say sorry, which is the biblical poisition.