Author Topic: Forgiveness, unconditionally  (Read 8640 times)

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Offline Winnie

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Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #128 on: April 06, 2020, 04:29:00 PM »
Must I as a Christian forgive a not sorry offender against me?

Many Christians say that Christians Must forgive regardless of whether the offender is sorry or has said/shown signs of being sorry.

I believe that the bible does not teach this at all.

That starting with how God deals with us he is willing to forgive every sinner, but only actually forgives them when they repent ( say sorry ).
Then there is Jesus's own example, on the cross he didn't say I forgive my killers, but prayed 'Father forgive them!' He did what we should do when hurting because of an unrepentant offender. He handed them over to God, for him to deal with.
Lastly there is Jesus's teaching. Not many people pay attention to Luke 17 verses 3+4

If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them;
and if they repent, forgive them. 
Even if they sin against you seven times in a day
and seven times come back to you saying 'I repent,'
you must forgive them.'

note what Jesus says, even if they come 70 times 7 saying I am sorry then we Must forgive.

Yet many Christians take Matthew 18 and its teaching on forgiveness to say we forgive no matter what.

'Then came Peter to Him, and said,
" Lord, how oft shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? till seven times?!
Jesus saith unto him,
"I say not unto thee, Until seven times: but, Until seventy times seven"'.
(Matthew 18:21-22) 

Hi @John,

Yes, I believe that you are right, that repentance should come before forgiveness.  It is then that we are to readily forgive, and forgive and forgive again.

However in referring to the Lord's words in prayer to the Father while on the cross, ' ... Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do.' (Luke 23:34).  The Lord only spoke the words that His Father gave Him to speak though didn't He? I do not believe that these words are any exception.  Those words are recorded for all to see, and would have been a comfort to those who were complicit in His death and came to repent their actions.  For God the Father always answers prayer!!

'Take heed to yourselves:
.. If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him;
.... and if he repent, forgive him.
And if he trespass against thee seven times in a day,
.. and seven times in a day turn again to thee, saying, I repent;
.... thou shalt forgive him.'

(Luke 17:3-4) 

Thank you.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline Winnie

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Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #129 on: April 06, 2020, 04:50:34 PM »
The issue of'how does God treat us?' is steadily avoided.
When were you forgiven? Is everyone forgiven?

The message proclaimed was Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

Do read what Jesus said in Luke 17:3+4. I only parapharased it.

Yes the command to Love our enemies as well as other believers means praying for them and doing them good,
yes we are to be willing and ready to forgive but it, like God's forgiveness, is conditional on being sorry.

'But these are written, that ye might believe
that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God;
and that believing ye might have life through His Name.'

(John 20:31)

Hello @John,

I do not believe that God's forgiveness of the sinner is conditional on sorrow for sin.  I believe that sorrow for sin is a consequence of believing the gospel of God concerning His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. It is the work of the Holy Spirit within the believing heart that leads to a spirit of repentance, of wanting to turn around and walk in that way no longer.   

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Theo

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Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #130 on: May 05, 2020, 10:27:58 AM »
In my book, sin and forgiveness are inextricably interlinked, and form the entire basis of faith.
And, also in my book, there are two forms of sin.

1) There is 'Inherent Sin' which is unconditionally forgiven for every person ever to live (past, present, and future) via Christ's sacrificial atonement.
2) There are 'Acts of Sin' which are committed once anyone has passed their own unique point of discretion, and forgiveness of such 'Acts of Sin' is God's prerogative according to the degree of of a person's repentance.

We are told that all shall stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ, when works (acts) shall be judged as to whether they metaphorically constitute "wood, hay, or stubble" (in which case they will be burned) or "gold, silver, or precious stones" (in which case they will remain).
Those who are found to have no works of "gold, silver, and precious stones" will perish (and be no more) in the 'second death'.
Those found to have a mixture of both sets of 'works' will be "saved (to Eternal Life) yet so as through fire".
(None will be found to have no works of 'wood, hay, and stubble')
That's my synopsis as seen "through a glass darkly".

 

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