Author Topic: Forgiveness, unconditionally  (Read 1998 times)

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Offline John

Forgiveness, unconditionally
« on: February 26, 2018, 07:56:10 AM »
Must I as a Christian forgive a not sorry offender against me?

Many Christians say that Christians Must forgive regardless of whether the offender is sorry or has said/shown signs of being sorry.

I believe that the bible does not teach this at all.

That starting with how God deals with us he is willing to forgive every sinner, but only actually forgives them when they repent( say sorry ).
Then there is Jesus's own example, on the cross he didn't say I forgive my killers, but prayed 'Fther forgive them!' He did what we should do when hurting because of an unrepentant offender. He handed them over to God, for him to deal with.
Lastly there is Jesus's teaching. Not many people pay attention to Luke 17 verses 3+4
If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ?I repent,? you must forgive them.?

note what Jesus says, even if they come 70 times 7 saying I am sorry then we Must forgive.

Yet many Christians take Matthew 18 and its teaching on forgiveness to say we forgive no matter what.




Offline Deborah

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Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2018, 11:30:35 AM »
We are to love our enemies and not bear any grudges (Luke 6:27,28). You could call this an attitude of forgiveness, I suppose.

But forgiveness in the sense of restoring the relationship between the two parties requires acknowledgement of guilt by the guilty party, and repentance.

I think this fits in with God's attitude towards sinners. He loves the whole world, whether people repent or not (John 3:16). He sent Jesus to die for us while we were still unrepentant (Romans 5:8 ).

If we have already 'forgiven' the offender in our heart and are not bitter or resentful towards them, when they do repent our forgiveness can be immediate and ungrudging.
"Christ died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for Him who died for them and was raised again." (II Corinthians 5:15)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2018, 02:35:15 PM »
Hi John
Interesting question you said

Quote
Must I as a Christian forgive a not sorry offender against me?
     

I don't think we should forgive them until the are sorry I don't think the scriptures require us to forgive them but what the scriptures do require is to love them.

Quote
Mat 5:44  But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
     

By doing the above we can give the offender a guilty conscience and they can ask our forgiveness which we shall give whole heartedly.

Mat 6:14  For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Mat 6:15  But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.
   


Of course its a two way street we also must ask forgiveness if we have wronged anyone and not let pride stand in the way.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline nina

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Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2018, 09:20:33 PM »
Must I as a Christian forgive a not sorry offender against me?

Many Christians say that Christians Must forgive regardless of whether the offender is sorry or has said/shown signs of being sorry.

I believe that the bible does not teach this at all.

That starting with how God deals with us he is willing to forgive every sinner, but only actually forgives them when they repent( say sorry ).
Then there is Jesus's own example, on the cross he didn't say I forgive my killers, but prayed 'Fther forgive them!' He did what we should do when hurting because of an unrepentant offender. He handed them over to God, for him to deal with.
Lastly there is Jesus's teaching. Not many people pay attention to Luke 17 verses 3+4
If your brother or sister sins against you, rebuke them; and if they repent, forgive them. 4 Even if they sin against you seven times in a day and seven times come back to you saying ?I repent,? you must forgive them.?

note what Jesus says, even if they come 70 times 7 saying I am sorry then we Must forgive.

Yet many Christians take Matthew 18 and its teaching on forgiveness to say we forgive no matter what.

Colossians 3:13 Bear with each other and forgive one another if any of you has a grievance against someone. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

Matthew 6:12 Forgive us the wrongs we have done, as we forgive the wrongs that others have done to us.

Ephesians 4: 32-33 Get rid of all bitterness, passion, and anger. No more shouting or insults, no more hateful feelings of any sort. Instead, be kind and tender-hearted to one another, and forgive one another, as God has forgiven you through Christ.

Matthew 5:14-15 If you forgive others the wrongs they have done to you, your Father in heaven will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive others, then your Father will not forgive the wrongs you have done.

Matthew 18:21-22 Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, ?Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother or sister who sins against me? Up to seven times??  Jesus answered, ?I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times.

We are a family. We should forgive and bear with each other. The unsaved, we still need to forgive because it is about our heart conditions that Jesus is interested in and to forgive someone shows trust in Jesus. It is a part of our act of worship to Jesus, putting our thoughts and hangups and fears our pride and self gain and one upmanship ect  to one side and raising up Jesus higher through  everything and all times, good and bad. We  receive the joy of the Lord through His love for us by the work of the Holy Spirit.

Hebrew 12 :14  Make every effort to live in peace with all men and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord.
1John 2:17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever
1Peter 1:15-16  But just as he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it is written: "Be holy, because I am holy."
Matthew 5:8 Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

I am working towards it. I have a  long way to go but when I have forgiven someone, and handed it over to Jesus, the feeling is fantastic and it feels free. . I do not need to worry about it any more . It is Jesus's problem now. I can still pray for the person if they have said sorry or not . What I must not do is then take back the problem and dwell in it and self pity and control. Once handed over, you leave it there.

Offline John

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #4 on: February 27, 2018, 12:46:05 PM »
The issue of'how does God treat us?' is steadily avoided.
When were you forgiven? Is everyone forgiven?

The message proclaimed was Repent for the kingdom of God is at hand.

Do read what Jesus said in Luke 17:3+4. I only parapharased it.

Yes the command to Love our enemies as well as other believers means praying for them and doing them good, yes we are to be willing and ready to forgive but it like God's forgiveness is conditional on being sorry.


Offline Neil DMonte

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #5 on: February 27, 2018, 02:07:06 PM »
I feel this is where God comes in as we can never forgive in our own strength and power... we need God to enable us through His Holy Spirit. Sometimes unforgiveness can be something demonically influenced. I feel the sermon on the mount is the clearest scriptural evidence that we should love our enemies and forgive under every circumstance no matter what the offence is, The Bible says offences will come but it's all about how we respond. Jesus said the highest commandments are to love God with all your heart, strength and mind and to love your neighbour as yourself (your neighbour clearly means your fellow human beings).   

Offline John

Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2018, 07:54:57 AM »
"I feel the sermon on the mount is the clearest scriptural evidence that we should love our enemies and forgive under every circumstance no matter what the offence is, "

People are going to get tired but I will keep repeating a part of the bible that you Do Not Know and keep ignoring.
read Luke 17 verse 3+4 where Jesus says,' If your brother sins against you and comes and Repents, then you Must forgive him.

Let me explain

There is only one occasion where biblicaly one MUST forgive someone and that is when they sincerely say I am sorry for what I did.

Think how God dealt with you. Were you forgiven before you repented or afterwards?

Offline davetaff

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Re: Forgiveness, unconditionally
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2018, 10:47:03 AM »
"I feel the sermon on the mount is the clearest scriptural evidence that we should love our enemies and forgive under every circumstance no matter what the offence is, "

People are going to get tired but I will keep repeating a part of the bible that you Do Not Know and keep ignoring.
read Luke 17 verse 3+4 where Jesus says,' If your brother sins against you and comes and Repents, then you Must forgive him.

Let me explain

There is only one occasion where biblicaly one MUST forgive someone and that is when they sincerely say I am sorry for what I did.

Think how God dealt with you. Were you forgiven before you repented or afterwards?

Hi John
Thanks for the question I was thinking of our Lord on the cross he said Father forgive them he did not say he forgave them but asked the father.
The question is when will that forgiveness be given would it be there and then or would it be when Israel repented and accepted Christ as their king and saviour which is still a future event.

Loving our enemies is very impotent if we are to bring unbelievers to repentance or as St Paul puts it

.     20  Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.

 21  Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good   


Yes overcome evil with good the ultimate example of this was the cross.

Love and Peace
Dave