Author Topic: Israel is Adam  (Read 1469 times)

Description: man in the Image of God

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Offline John

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #88 on: February 19, 2018, 05:05:54 PM »
Dave,
           I use the NIV. There is a question mark because it indicates that a question has been asked.

Your ideasget stranger and stranger.  Yes Israels head was to be God, but they rejected that and went after a King.
No Isreal was not to have dominion over the earth. You'll read in Joshua how the land was devide up. Nowhere is Israel to have dominion.


There is nothing new to be found in scripture. We find there the god news that sinful men can be recogcilled to God and worship him.

That is our purpose and the purpose of the bible.

Strange ideas about what the bible says only lead away from this. May I suggest that you join a local church and get involved with the people there.

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #89 on: February 19, 2018, 10:02:11 PM »
But if as I said before that Canaan was the land flowing with milk and honey was Eden into which Gods first born son was placed by God then this would make Israel Adam.
But Canaan could never be the Garden of Eden for many reasons. ie. Where are the two trees in the midst of the Garden Canaan?

But lets look closer.
2Gen3v3So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
As you can see Dave, Adam was driven out of the garden and banished. If in your world, Israel is Adam, and Canaan is Eden, then Israel is banned from Canaan.
Your logic is farcical dave.
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And if all the corresponding points that I have made from scripture are correct then there is good reason to conclude that Israel is a good candidate for the one who is a pattern of the one who was to come which is Christ.
But Dave, as I and everyone else here keeps pointing out, your corresponding points are hopelessly false.
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As for man in the image of God how do you view the following.

.   
.  22  How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man     

Just one among many other irrelevant verses that you keep throwing around.
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Or are you saying that one prehistoric man and woman could have dominion over the whole earth.
That is precisely what the Lord said in Genesis.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #90 on: February 20, 2018, 03:00:50 PM »
Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply a little more challenging than usual thanks you said.

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But Canaan could never be the Garden of Eden for many reasons. ie. Where are the two trees in the midst of the Garden Canaan     

The tree of life is Christ he is Always present watching over the creation the tree of Knowledge of good and evil is the law the law tells us what good and evil are.
Israel is likened to an olive tree our lord said he is the true vine so why would one think that the trees in Eden were ordinary trees

 
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But lets look closer.
2Gen3v3So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
As you can see Dave, Adam was driven out of the garden and banished. If in your world, Israel is Adam, and Canaan is Eden, then Israel is banned from Canaan.
Your logic is farcical dave.     
 

We have a few instances of this Israel being taken into Assyria and Babylon but God brought them back into there own land.
then in AD70 the Romans sacked Jerusalem and Israel as a nation in its own land ceased to exist Israel is banished from the land flowing with milk and honey.
As for the cherubim and the flaming sword I believe the sword to be the word of God as preached by our lord which Israel refused to believe the same sword that comes from the mouth of our lord as depicted in revelations.
now after almost 2000 years Israel is back but the sword remains until the accept the word of truth.

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But Dave, as I and everyone else here keeps pointing out, your corresponding points are hopelessly false   

As far as I can remember nobodies challenged them at all the impression I get is yes there are corresponding points but they don't mean anything.

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Just one among many other irrelevant verses that you keep throwing around.
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Well Frances are you saying Gods word is irrelevant I happen to believe every word is given for our instruction.

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Or are you saying that one prehistoric man and woman could have dominion over the whole earth.

That is precisely what the Lord said in Genesis.   

What God said in Genesis is he would make man (mankind ) in the image of God and Christ is the only one in the whole of scripture that fulfils that statement.

Love and Peace
Dave 

 
       

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #91 on: February 20, 2018, 04:30:09 PM »
We have a few instances of this Israel being taken into Assyria and Babylon but God brought them back into there own land.
then in AD70 the Romans sacked Jerusalem and Israel as a nation in its own land ceased to exist Israel is banished from the land flowing with milk and honey.
As for the cherubim and the flaming sword I believe the sword to be the word of God as preached by our lord which Israel refused to believe the same sword that comes from the mouth of our lord as depicted in revelations.
now after almost 2000 years Israel is back but the sword remains until the accept the word of truth.
None of this answers my point that Israel cannot be Adam nor Canaan be Eden because Adam was cast out of Eden.
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As far as I can remember nobodies challenged them at all the impression I get is yes there are corresponding points but they don't mean anything.
Myself, @Cariad, @John, etc. have all rejected your various points and done so repeatedly.
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Well Frances are you saying Gods word is irrelevant I happen to believe every word is given for our instruction.
No Dave. It is you who, despite pretending to believe every word, only when its twisted out of shape to suit your agenda.
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What God said in Genesis is he would make man (mankind ) in the image of God and Christ is the only one in the whole of scripture that fulfils that statement.
Go back and read Genesis Dave. It says that Adam was made in the image of God. As descendants of Adam, all men including Christ, humanly speaking, are made in the image of God.

Again you have proved nothing to support your false hypothesis.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #92 on: February 22, 2018, 11:48:52 AM »
Hi Frances
Thanks for your reply you said

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.AsNone of this answers my point that Israel cannot be Adam nor Canaan be Eden because Adam was cast out of Eden     

As I said in my last post Israel was banished from the promised land in 70ad it's the same story as in Genesis

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.Myself, @Cariad, @John, etc. have all rejected your various points and done so repeatedly        [/quote ]

And you have a perfect right to do so I don't have a problem with that we all have different thoughts on what the scriptures mean.

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. No Dave. It is you who, despite pretending to believe every word, only when its twisted out of shape to suit your agenda   

No Frances I don't pretend I believe the creation story In genesis is the history of Israel told in advance how wonderful is that.

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.Go back and read Genesis Dave. It says that Adam was made in the image of God. As descendants of Adam, all men including Christ, humanly speaking, are made in the image of God     

I have read it many times yes Adam was made in the image of God male and female.
How about all the lovely ladies out there are they also in the image of God.
To be in the image of God the man and woman have to be united in one this can only be achieved in Christ.

. Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus       

Only in Christ is Adam complete

Love and Peace
Dave




Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2018, 08:27:44 PM »

As I said in my last post Israel was banished from the promised land in 70ad it's the same story as in Genesis
So what Dave? That's no proof whatsoever that Israel is Adam.
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No Frances I don't pretend I believe the creation story In genesis is the history of Israel told in advance how wonderful is that.
No Dave, aspects of the creation story can be found throughout scripture, but again that's no evidence that Israel has somehow become Adam.

Anyone can find similarities between events in the bible. My wife and I just read 2Chronicles this morning and these two events followed a page apart.-
2Chron21v4When Jehoram established himself firmly over his father?s kingdom, he put all his brothers to the sword along with some of the officials of Israel.
Jehoram kills all the possible challengers to the throne...............and then.......

2Chron22v10When Athaliah the mother of Ahaziah saw that her son was dead, she proceeded to destroy the whole royal family of the house of Judah.
The next generation comes along and Queen Athaliah takes the throne and kills all the possible challengers to her reign, just the same as Jehoram had done.

According to your foolish logic, that proves Athaliah must be Jehoram rising from the grave in drag!
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I have read it many times yes Adam was made in the image of God male and female.
How about all the lovely ladies out there are they also in the image of God.
To be in the image of God the man and woman have to be united in one this can only be achieved in Christ.
Utterly false Dave. Your false interpretation is clearly revealed by the words used in Genesis.-
Gen1v27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.

Look very carefully Dave. In the image of God he created them, plural, male and female, both individually in the image of God.
Male and female are created "in the image of God" as single individuals. They remain "in the image of God" whether married or not.
Do not try and add your criteria to scriptures that are already very specific as they stand.
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. Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus       

Only in Christ is Adam complete
But again, this is garbage Dave, proving nothing about Israel being Adam.

Every last bit of nonsense you grasp at to support your false agenda has be dismantled, either by me, or by the other members here.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #94 on: February 24, 2018, 02:57:37 PM »
Hi Frances
Thanks for your reply you said.

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So what Dave? That's no proof whatsoever that Israel is Adam.   

May be not but what it dose show is the account of creation is the history of Israel in advance.

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No Dave, aspects of the creation story can be found throughout scripture, but again that's no evidence that Israel has somehow become Adam   

And you don't find that significant that we can trace the creation story through scripture it has to mean something.

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Gen1v27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.
Look very carefully Dave. In the image of God he created them, plural, male and female, both individually in the image of God.
Male and female are created "in the image of God" as single individuals. They remain "in the image of God" whether married or not.
Do not try and add your criteria to scriptures that are already very specific as they stand.   

We always come back to man in Gods image you say its any Man that walks the planet I say its Jesus Christ which is supported by scripture which says he is the express image of his person.

Yes God created them Male and female he also said.

Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
   


what dose one flesh mean I believe it means us in Christ and Christ in us

1Jn 4:13  Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
   


If we are in Christ and Christ in us and united by the Holy Spirit Then we are man in Gods image and thus fulfil the statement in Genesis

Gen1v27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.   


Never forgetting he tells us the end from the beginning the beginning and end of all things is Christ Jesus our Lord.

Love and Peace
Dave

 


Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #95 on: February 24, 2018, 10:17:12 PM »
May be not but what it dose show is the account of creation is the history of Israel in advance.
Although some aspects repeat, the history of Israel is widely different to the account of creation. Still doesn't show that Israel is Adam.
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And you don't find that significant that we can trace the creation story through scripture it has to mean something.
There's nothing of significance to support your silly false doctrine that Israel is Adam.
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We always come back to man in Gods image you say its any Man that walks the planet I say its Jesus Christ which is supported by scripture which says he is the express image of his person.
This is utterly false. I proved clearly from the scripture that Adam and Eve separately were made in the image of God.
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Yes God created them Male and female he also said.

Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
But Dave, think man! That verse says nothing whatsoever about Israel being Adam does it now?
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what dose one flesh mean I believe it means us in Christ and Christ in us
"One flesh" jjust refers to any and all union between a man and a woman. But again, it doesn't show that Israel is Adam.
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1Jn 4:13  Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.
   

And this verse somehow proves that Israel is Adam????????????
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If we are in Christ and Christ in us and united by the Holy Spirit Then we are man in Gods image and thus fulfil the statement in Genesis
And just how does this prove Israel is Adam????????????
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Gen1v27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created them;
male and female he created them.   


Never forgetting he tells us the end from the beginning the beginning and end of all things is Christ Jesus our Lord.
And how does this prove Israel is Adam??????????????


This is just waffle waffle waffle to try and prove a doctrine of demons.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)