Author Topic: Israel is Adam  (Read 1467 times)

Description: man in the Image of God

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Offline John

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #80 on: February 17, 2018, 06:17:37 PM »
Dave,
         "Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:     

Sorry to post this again but you seam to avoid  an answer if the nation of  Israel is Gods firstborn son then he must have bean created in the image of his father like father like son.
And being there are only two Adams then it stands to reason that Gods first born son is Adam."

And what about Israel as a daughter:-
Isaiah 62:11
The Lord has made proclamation to the ends of the earth: ?Say to Daughter Zion, ?See, your Savior comes! See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.??

Jeremiah 31:22
How long will you wander, unfaithful Daughter Israel? The Lord will create a new thing on earth? the woman will return to the man.?


God discribes Israel as both son and daughter and neither have anything to do with Jesus's coming.

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #81 on: February 17, 2018, 11:44:11 PM »
Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:     
Sorry to post this again but you seam to avoid  an answer if the nation of  Israel is Gods firstborn son then he must have bean created in the image of his father like father like son.
And being there are only two Adams then it stands to reason that Gods first born son is Adam.
No Dave, no!
This is pure nonsense.
Throughout the scriptures, the man called Adam, as created in the Garden of Eden, is always referred to as Adam, and will always be the first Adam.
He will always remain the first Adam because there was no Adam before him.
Israel cannot possibly be the first Adam for the simple logic that there was already an Adam prior to Israel.

Your boat full of falsehood has just sunk Dave.

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I never said Israel was a mistake I said I don't think god makes mistakes I will amend that I know God dose not make mistakes.
Where else in scripture is the purpose of israel mentioned and what dose it say I would be interested.
The bible is full of prophetic words regarding the purpose of Israel. Go and look for them yourself and you will find that none of them indicate that Israel is Adam.
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I think my argument is very logical and based on scripture jest because you don't believe it dose not make it wrong.
 
No Dave, your argument is neither logical nor scriptural, it's just based on foolish doctrines of demons.
Israel cannot possibly be the first Adam,
Adam in Eden will always remain the first Adam because there was no Adam before him.
Therefore Israel cannot possibly be the first Adam for the simple logic that there was already an Adam prior to Israel.

Quote

I have given quite a few scripture and reasons why I believe what I say and it agrees with the overall picture of scripture which is the story of creation we have in Genesis.
No Dave, it does not agree with the overall picture of scripture in any possible way.
In no way have you ever shown a single scripture that tells us that Israel is Adam. The fact remains that Israel cannot be the first Adam because of the fact that another Adam had already beaten Israel to that title!
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #82 on: February 18, 2018, 10:36:28 AM »
Dave,
         "Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:     

Sorry to post this again but you seam to avoid  an answer if the nation of  Israel is Gods firstborn son then he must have bean created in the image of his father like father like son.
And being there are only two Adams then it stands to reason that Gods first born son is Adam."

And what about Israel as a daughter:-
Isaiah 62:11
The Lord has made proclamation to the ends of the earth: ?Say to Daughter Zion, ?See, your Savior comes! See, his reward is with him, and his recompense accompanies him.??

Jeremiah 31:22
How long will you wander, unfaithful Daughter Israel? The Lord will create a new thing on earth? the woman will return to the man.?


God discribes Israel as both son and daughter and neither have anything to do with Jesus's coming.

Hi John
Thank you for your reply in the one verse you quoted I do not find the word Israel.

.  22  How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man     

I believe the daughter of Zion and the daughter quoted in the verse above is a reference to the temple and the priesthood in Jerusalem.
We must not forget that man in Gods image was male and female that became one.

As I mentioned before the priest hood is the woman the daughter of Zion who led the nation of Israel astray.

Love and peace
Dave


Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #83 on: February 18, 2018, 11:21:48 AM »
Hi France
Thanks for your reply you said

Quote
.    No Dave, no!
This is pure nonsense.
Throughout the scriptures, the man called Adam, as created in the Garden of Eden, is always referred to as Adam, and will always be the first Adam.   

God created the garden in the east the land of Canaan was east of Egypt a land flowing with milk and honey sounds pretty much like a paradise to me jest another coincidence I suppose.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #84 on: February 18, 2018, 01:51:34 PM »
God created the garden in the east the land of Canaan was east of Egypt a land flowing with milk and honey sounds pretty much like a paradise to me jest another coincidence I suppose.

And.....?

You're not seriously presenting this to somehow prove that Israel is Adam?

Again just more vain ramblings trying to justify falsehood.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #85 on: February 19, 2018, 01:23:16 PM »
Hi Frances
Thanks for your reply in a previous post you said

Quote

Adam in Eden will always remain the first Adam because there was no Adam before him.
Therefore Israel cannot possibly be the first Adam for the simple logic that there was already an Adam prior to Israel     

But if as I said before that Canaan was the land flowing with milk and honey was Eden into which Gods first born son was placed by God then this would make Israel Adam.
And if all the corresponding points that I have made from scripture are correct then there is good reason to conclude that Israel is a good candidate for the one who is a pattern of the one who was to come which is Christ.

As for man in the image of God how do you view the following.

.   
.  22  How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man     


I see this as Christ surrounded by his church which would mean that the first Adam would also be more than one man and one woman.
So Christ and his church is a whole multitude so it stands to reason that the first Adam would be the same.

Or are you saying that one prehistoric man and woman could have dominion over the whole earth.

Love and Peace
Dave


Offline John

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #86 on: February 19, 2018, 02:33:07 PM »
Dave, I quoted two verses the second mentioned 'Daughter Israel'.

The point being Israel is not a man nor is Israel a woman, but is the descendants of one man called Israel.

They do not represent Jesus if only because they were rebellious sinners as far as being like Jesus as it is possible to imagine.

The role of Israel was simpe, they like Christians were to live according to God's law and show what blessingsflowed from obedience.

The world was to come and enquire of Israel to learn about God.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #87 on: February 19, 2018, 04:04:52 PM »
Dave, I quoted two verses the second mentioned 'Daughter Israel'.

The point being Israel is not a man nor is Israel a woman, but is the descendants of one man called Israel.

They do not represent Jesus if only because they were rebellious sinners as far as being like Jesus as it is possible to imagine.

The role of Israel was simpe, they like Christians were to live according to God's law and show what blessingsflowed from obedience.

The world was to come and enquire of Israel to learn about God.

Hi John
Thanks for your reply It seams we have a problem with translation the ESV says

22  yHow long will you waver,
zO faithless daughter?
For the Lord has created a new thing on the earth:
a woman encircles a man.   


KJV says

Jer 31:22  How long wilt thou go about, O thou backsliding daughter? for the LORD hath created a new thing in the earth, A woman shall compass a man.
     


The word Israel is not used in either of these translations which one do you use I did notice that there is a question mark after the word Israel is that because the translation is questionable.

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he point being Israel is not a man nor is Israel a woman, but is the descendants of one man called Israel.
   

What we are seeking here is man in the image of God not jest a man and a woman and my contention is the only man who is the express image of God is Christ and what will he look like if we look at the two verses above we see

A woman shall compass a man.  a woman encircles a man   

I believe this is a reference about Christ at his second coming he will be surrounded by his church his bride his Eve.

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They do not represent Jesus if only because they were rebellious sinners as far as being like Jesus as it is possible to imagine.   

 Yes Israel were rebellious sinners disobedient and in that respect nothing like our Lord but that's not what I'm talking about I'm talking about the structure of how Israel was created in had a head I believe it was Christ the piller of smoke and fire that went before them when they left Egypt and he spoke through Moses they had a high priest and a priesthood and the 11 tribes which count for the children.

The last Adam will be structured the same the only difference being Christ will be prophet priest and King at the rapture what God said in Genesis will be realised 

Gen 1:26  And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
Gen 1:27  So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
   
 

Only in Christ can this be achieved.

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The world was to come and enquire of Israel to learn about God     

Yes if Israel had remained obedient and done as God commanded then I believe they would have spread out and had dominion over the earth as stated in Genesis but they disobeyed and as a result the died as a nation when they crucified our Lord but they will be resurrected in the last days.

Love and Peace
Dave