Author Topic: Israel is Adam  (Read 1406 times)

Description: man in the Image of God

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 52 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2018, 10:55:03 AM »
'And so it is written,
'The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.'
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural;
and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man is of the earth, earthy:
the second man is the Lord from heaven.
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy:
and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

(1 Cor.15:45-49)

Praise God!

Hello again, Dave,

* The Holy Spirit's use of the prophecy of Hosea 11:1, in Matthew 2:15, is an occasion where the 'sense' is accommodated, being different from it's first use, and is adapted to quite a different event or circumstance (see context) : as in Matthew 2:17-18, which is quoted from, Jeremiah 31:15.

* It is true that God refers to Israel as His son, but Israel is never referred to as, 'Adam,' by the Holy Spirit; so what right have we to make that application?  None!

* Can Israel be called, 'The First Man', as Adam is in 1 Corinthians 15:45 & 47?  No! 

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Hi Chris
Thank you for you reply and the scriptures you have quoted excellent can't fault it believe every word.

It all boils down to what God means by man in his image.



Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. View more

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created 


From what I was able to find out man and Adam can mean the same.

From the above verses we can see that God viewed Both Adam and Eve as one Adam or man same thing.

Again I would like to draw your attention to

.   Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high   

Christ is the only one in scripture whom this is said about and as such is the end of creation the last thing God created is man in his own image.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Cariad

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 319
  • Total likes: 18
  • Thanked: 25 times
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2018, 11:18:43 AM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for you reply and the scriptures you have quoted excellent can't fault it believe every word.

It all boils down to what God means by man in his image.



Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. View more

Gen 5:2 Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created 


From what I was able to find out man and Adam can mean the same.

From the above verses we can see that God viewed Both Adam and Eve as one Adam or man same thing.

Again I would like to draw your attention to

.   Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high   

Christ is the only one in scripture whom this is said about and as such is the end of creation the last thing God created is man in his own image.

Love and Peace
Dave

'When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance,
when He separated the sons of Adam,
He set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.'

(Deu 32:8  -read in context)

Hello Dave,

You cannot believe every word that I quoted, as you say you do, for if you did your response would be quite different. You would accept what is said within it. God says what He means and means exactly what he says, Dave.  You just do not believe Him.

The place that the first man created had (i.e., ADAM), in the mind of God, is made evident in such passages as Deuteronomy 32:8 quoted above, the man Adam is differentiated from his offspring; and he alone in the Old Testament has a genealogy recorded (Gen.5:1), as only Christ has in the New Testament, Adam himself being part of it (Luke 3:38); and his place as a figure of Christ is also made clear in such passages as those quoted from Romans 5 and 1 Corinthians 15.  You simply will not accept what God says.

* By the way, I asked you two questions in my post, neither of which you have answered. They need to be answered, Dave, in the light of your claim in this thread 'that Israel is Adam': and I will not respond further until I receive your answers to them, ie.,
Quote
* It is true that God refers to Israel as His son, but Israel is never referred to as, 'Adam,' by the Holy Spirit; so what right have we to make that application?
 
* Can Israel be called, 'The First Man', as Adam is in 1 Corinthians 15:45 & 47

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 52 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #10 on: January 24, 2018, 02:50:09 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply and the scripture very interesting.

Deu 32:7  Remember the days of old, consider the years of many generations: ask thy father, and he will shew thee; thy elders, and they will tell thee.
Deu 32:8  When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.
Deu 32:9  For the LORD'S portion is his people; Jacob is the lot of his inheritance.
Deu 32:10  He found him in a desert land, and in the waste howling wilderness; he led him about, he instructed him, he kept him as the apple of his eye.
   


We see here in Deu 32:8  that the sons of  Adam mentioned here is equated here with the sons of Israel ( Jacob ) So Israel is the father Adam.

From  Deu 32:9 we see that Israel is very special to God Jacob is his people they are separate from the rest of the nations and as  Deu 32:10 the apple of his eye and it also reminds Israel of when they came out of Egypt and he looked after them in the desert.

as for your questions
Quote
It is true that God refers to Israel as His son, but Israel is never referred to as, 'Adam,' by the Holy Spirit; so what right have we to make that application? 
* Can Israel be called, 'The First Man', as Adam is in 1 Corinthians 15:45 & 47?     

I think the verse you quoted answers that question pretty well

 Deu 32:8  When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance, when he separated the sons of Adam, he set the bounds of the people according to the number of the children of Israel.

The sons of Adam the 12 sons of Israel.

For your next question.

1Co 15:44  It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1Co 15:45  And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1Co 15:46  Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
   


We know that our Lord died and was buried and the third day rose as a spiritual being and we also Know we will also be part of that spiritual body when we are transformed into his glorious body.

Israel was created out of ordinary people of the flesh and was made as a pattern of the one who was to come which is Christ.

Now I would Like to ask you a question.
For what purpose did God create Israel he knew perfectly well what was going to happen he knew the would go astray so why.

I believe it was to tell the story of the creation of man in his image in the history of Israel and to show us what will work and what wont work.

Love and Peace
Dave   






 

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #11 on: January 24, 2018, 03:56:35 PM »
Hi Frances
Thank you for you reply I see you have only replied to part of my post so must agree with the rest :undecided:
Wrong Dave. That answered post No3 which only had one sentence in its entirety. There were no other points to answer.
Quote
As for the scripture you quoted it all depends on what man in Gods image means and what about the women where do they come in.
Man in God's image means what it says Dave, despite how many times you twist and distort it to force it into your pet doctrine.

"..........and what about the women.....?"  They are included in man.
Genesis5v1This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day when God created man (Adam), He made him in the likeness of God.
The word Adam in Hebrew actually means man or mankind inclusive of women and is translated as such.

2He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man (Adam) in the day when they were created.
I don't think it could be clearer than that Dave, both male and female are called man (Adam). Whether a scripture refers to Adam alone or both of them, or mankind in general, has to be seen from the context.
Quote
In Genesis the first Adam and eve became one so if I should remain single all my life I cannot be in Gods image.
I already gave you scripture proving you wrong on this Dave, but here it is again.-
James3v9With it (the tongue) we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, those made according to the image of God.
Quote
As for the creation it is one creation in three stages try to see it as Father Son and Holy Spirit sound familiar.
That is absurd Dave. Creation completely ended on the 6th day, Genesis tells us that. There was no further creation after that.
But using Father Son and Holy Spirit to pretend there were three stages of creation is crass to say the least, and also insultingly blasphemous to God.
You are effectively saying that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were created. What planet are you on?
Quote
We are in the Spiritual part of it Christ is Spirit and so is his body.

Just plain drivel Dave. Again you provide no evidence, and some of the claims you make are truly blasphemous to God's character.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 52 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #12 on: January 24, 2018, 05:26:19 PM »
Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply you said

Quote
Man in God's image means what it says Dave, despite how many times you twist and distort it to force it into your pet doctrine.
   

Yes Frances man in Gods image is exactly that and the bible tells us who he is.

Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
   


This  is said of no other in scripture it is Jesus Christ Gods only begotten son and at the rapture we will have man in Gods image.

Quote
The word Adam in Hebrew actually means man or mankind inclusive of women and is translated as such.   

I believe I have said this as well So you are Right Frances.

 
Quote
2He created them male and female, and He blessed them and named them Man (Adam) in the day when they were created.
I don't think it could be clearer than that Dave, both male and female are called man (Adam). Whether a scripture refers to Adam alone or both of them, or mankind in general, has to be seen from the context. 

Maybe I have not made myself plain I am not disputing the creation account in Genesis I accept it 100% what I am trying to do is reapply it to after the flood and only to applying it to the creation of man in Gods image.
everything else was on the ark But Adam and Seth where dead so God set about the creation of man in his image first the man of flesh Israel then the man of spirit Christ.

Quote
That is absurd Dave. Creation completely ended on the 6th day, Genesis tells us that. There was no further creation after that.
But using Father Son and Holy Spirit to pretend there were three stages of creation is crass to say the least, and also insultingly blasphemous to God.
You are effectively saying that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit were created. What planet are you on? 

Yes creation will end on the sixth day at sometime in the future but the days of creation I am talking about are 1000 years long.
you say that there was no further creation after the 6 days in Genesis then tell me what this means.

Joh 5:17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
 


If the Father was still working 2000 years ago when did he rest but we are told there is a day of rest and we can enter in.

Heb 4:1  Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2  For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3  For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4  For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5  And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6  Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8  For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10  For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
   


So the 7th day of this creation is The father Sabbath rest and we can enter in and why can the Father rest because he has handed everything over to the son to complete the creation.
Gods Sabbath rest is Christs millennial reign 1000 years 1 day

Quote
Just plain drivel Dave. Again you provide no evidence, and some of the claims you make are truly blasphemous to God's character.   

I suppose its easer to cast insults if you don't have any resonable arguments to put forward.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

Offline Cariad

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 319
  • Total likes: 18
  • Thanked: 25 times
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #13 on: January 24, 2018, 11:44:18 PM »
Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply you said

Yes Frances man in Gods image is exactly that and the bible tells us who he is.

Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
   


This  is said of no other in scripture it is Jesus Christ Gods only begotten son and at the rapture we will have man in Gods image.

I believe I have said this as well So you are Right Frances.

 
Maybe I have not made myself plain I am not disputing the creation account in Genesis I accept it 100% what I am trying to do is reapply it to after the flood and only to applying it to the creation of man in Gods image.
everything else was on the ark But Adam and Seth where dead so God set about the creation of man in his image first the man of flesh Israel then the man of spirit Christ.

Yes creation will end on the sixth day at sometime in the future but the days of creation I am talking about are 1000 years long.
you say that there was no further creation after the 6 days in Genesis then tell me what this means.

Joh 5:17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work.
 


If the Father was still working 2000 years ago when did he rest but we are told there is a day of rest and we can enter in.

Heb 4:1  Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
Heb 4:2  For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
Heb 4:3  For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
Heb 4:4  For he spake in a certain place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from all his works.
Heb 4:5  And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Heb 4:6  Seeing therefore it remaineth that some must enter therein, and they to whom it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief:
Heb 4:7  Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts.
Heb 4:8  For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.
Heb 4:9  There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Heb 4:10  For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Heb 4:11  Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
   


So the 7th day of this creation is The father Sabbath rest and we can enter in and why can the Father rest because he has handed everything over to the son to complete the creation.
Gods Sabbath rest is Christs millennial reign 1000 years 1 day

I suppose its easer to cast insults if you don't have any resonable arguments to put forward.

Love and Peace
Dave

 
Hello Dave,

When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance,
when He separated the sons of Adam,
He set the bounds of the people
according to the number of the children of Israel.'

( Deut.32:8 )

* In the Song of Moses of Deuteronomy 32, in verse 8 quoted above, God reminds the children of Israel of what happened  200 years before Abraham, recorded in Genesis 10:32:-

'These are the families of the sons of Noah,
after their generations, in their nations:
and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.'


* Moses tells us that God separated 'the sons of Adam', born through Noah's sons, into nations; setting their bounds, according to the number of the children of Israel, which was seventy (see Gen. 46:26-27 & Genesis 10). The nation of Israel was then not in existence, but would come through the line of Shem, the youngest of Noah's sons, also a Son of Adam by descent of course.

As to your question, the answer to that goes back to Genesis 3 and God's promise of the seed of the woman, that was to be born through Jacob's line of descent - the Lord Jesus Christ - the Saviour. Whose line of descent goes back to Adam, the first man, through Joseph, his Father under law.(see Luke's gospel)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris




Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 52 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2018, 03:33:51 PM »
Hello Dave,

When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance,
when He separated the sons of Adam,
He set the bounds of the people
according to the number of the children of Israel.'

( Deut.32:8 )

* In the Song of Moses of Deuteronomy 32, in verse 8 quoted above, God reminds the children of Israel of what happened  200 years before Abraham, recorded in Genesis 10:32:-

'These are the families of the sons of Noah,
after their generations, in their nations:
and by these were the nations divided in the earth after the flood.'


* Moses tells us that God separated 'the sons of Adam', born through Noah's sons, into nations; setting their bounds, according to the number of the children of Israel, which was seventy (see Gen. 46:26-27 & Genesis 10). The nation of Israel was then not in existence, but would come through the line of Shem, the eldest of Noah's sons, also a Son of Adam by descent of course.

As to your question, the answer to that goes back to Genesis 3 and God's promise of the seed of the woman, that was to be born through Jacob's line of descent - the Lord Jesus Christ - the Saviour. Whose line of descent goes back to Adam, the first man, through Joseph, his Father under law.(see Luke's gospel)

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply before I proceed I would like to ask you something in the verse you have Quoted Deut.32:8 it says the children of Israel but when I follow the link to read more it says.

8  When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders1 of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.   


Sons of God do you know why, is it a mistake which one do you think is right I value you opinion on this.

As for the rest of your post I'm having trouble conecting  Deut.32:8 with the sons of Noah at the moment but I will give you the benfit of the doubt on this one it seams resonable thank you.

Another reason I say what I do about the Genesis account of Creation is

Heb 4:3  For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
   


works were finished from the foundation of the world so when God said the words in Genesis all his works were complete right up and including the milenium and from that possion he gives us an account of everthing he would do.

Love and Peace
Dave




Offline Cariad

  • Awarded Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 319
  • Total likes: 18
  • Thanked: 25 times
  • Welcome our New Member
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2018, 06:04:44 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply before I proceed I would like to ask you something in the verse you have Quoted Deut.32:8 it says the children of Israel but when I follow the link to read more it says.

8  When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders1 of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.   


Sons of God do you know why, is it a mistake which one do you think is right I value you opinion on this.

As for the rest of your post I'm having trouble conecting  Deut.32:8 with the sons of Noah at the moment but I will give you the benfit of the doubt on this one it seams resonable thank you.

Another reason I say what I do about the Genesis account of Creation is

Heb 4:3  For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.
   


works were finished from the foundation of the world so when God said the words in Genesis all his works were complete right up and including the milenium and from that possion he gives us an account of everthing he would do.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hello Dave,

Deuteronomy 32:8, in the KJV version (which is my choice) is clearly not the same as your version. It uses the words, 'the sons of Adam', so:-

'When the Most High divided to the nations their inheritance,
When He separated the sons of Adam,
He set the bounds of the People
According to the number of the children of Israel.'


* The link to Genesis 10:32 is not of my own deduction, I was directed to it through my Bible marginal notes. A reading of Genesis 10, will show you why I think. 

* The number of those listed, in that chapter (Gen.10), are 70 in all ( the number of the children of Israel in Deut.32:8, see Gen.46:26-27 ); these were Adam's sons through Noah' s son's sons, who were divided into nations after the flood. This 70, are set in contrast with the 70 souls of the house of Jacob who came  into Egypt, so defining them (Gen.46:26-27): for Numbers 23:9 tells us that Israel, 'shall dwell alone, and shall not be reckoned among the nations'.

* So Adam's line of descent continues after the flood, and leads on, through Shem to Nahor, Terah, Abram, Isaac and Jacob; to David and to 'The Son of Abraham', 'The Son of David' - The Lord Jesus Christ - The Son of God! 


In Christ Jesus
Chris