Author Topic: Israel is Adam  (Read 1466 times)

Description: man in the Image of God

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Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #72 on: February 14, 2018, 06:56:11 PM »

Luk 6:37  Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
   

You have taken this out of context Dave.
Contrary to what most Christians are taught, Jesus is not commanding believers to stop passing judgement. He is demanding that judgement is done righteously.

The fuller context is here in Matt7v1?Do not judge so that you will not be judged. 2?For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. 3?Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother?s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4?Or how can you say to your brother, ?Let me take the speck out of your eye,? and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5?You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother?s eye.

ie.We first deal with what's blocking our own eyesight, only then are we able to remove that which is stopping others from seeing clearly.
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I take it you want me to believe in the standard belief in 6 days God created the heavens and the earth I do believe it, and on the last day he created man in his image male and female he created them I believe that to.

Then he said to these two people rule the world and subdue it realy jest two people then God created a garden in the east and planted two trees perhaps a apple and a pear and God said dont eat the apples or you will die.

Sounds like something you tell little children at sunday school.
It only sounds like Sunday school stuff because you've added Mickey Mouse nonsense into it Dave.
And then below, you add even more Mickey Mouse silliness.-
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But if those two people are Christ and his church then it makes perfect sense I will again post a few verse I have posted them before but everyone seams to ignore them maybe you can give me your verssion.

[Isa 46:10/KJVLite]]* Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:   

What dose God tell us at the beginning but the end of creation which Is Christ Jesus our lord who is the express image of the Father.

Joh 5:17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work   

If the father was still working 2000 years ago when did he rest if you read Hebrews you will see Gods rest is still waiting for us.
None of this shows that Israel is Adam!
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  Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:   

If Israel is God Firstborn son He would be the image of his Parent would he not all 600.000 that left Egypt The nation of Israel is Mankind in Gods Image and the pattern of the one to Come which is Christ.

Now I would like your version of these texts if they do not mean what I have said what do they mean.
Again, none of this shows that Israel is Adam.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline nina

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #73 on: February 14, 2018, 08:15:53 PM »
I thought it was Jacob  who was named Israel  .
Genesis 35 : 10 God said to him, "Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel." So he named him Israel.

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #74 on: February 15, 2018, 10:54:00 AM »
I thought it was Jacob  who was named Israel  .
Genesis 35 : 10 God said to him, "Your name is Jacob, but you will no longer be called Jacob; your name will be Israel." So he named him Israel.

Hi Nina
Welcome to the site and the discussion look forward to your posts.

Yes you are right Jacob was named Israel after he had fought with God all night.
I believe Israel means he struggle's with God or God will prevail the nation of Israel also uses this name.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #75 on: February 15, 2018, 11:31:23 AM »
Hi Frances
Thanks for the reply not very helpful more like smoke and mirrors and big red writing I'm shaking in my shoes  :wink:

As for what I have said and the scriptures I have posted not one alternative point of view which makes me think you don't have one which makes me think I am right or you would have given an alternative explanation.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #76 on: February 15, 2018, 02:27:58 PM »
Hi Frances
Thanks for the reply not very helpful more like smoke and mirrors and big red writing I'm shaking in my shoes  :wink:

As for what I have said and the scriptures I have posted not one alternative point of view which makes me think you don't have one which makes me think I am right or you would have given an alternative explanation.

Silly silly silly.
We don't need any alternative views Dave, the scripture says what it plainly says which is nothing to do with the silly nonsense you keep spouting.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #77 on: February 16, 2018, 02:46:57 PM »
Silly silly silly.
We don't need any alternative views Dave, the scripture says what it plainly says which is nothing to do with the silly nonsense you keep spouting.

Hi Frances
yes you are right answers like the above are silly and unproductive I meant this thread to be a serious discussion about the possibility that Israel was Adam maybe I should have put it as a question is Israel Adam rather than a statement of fact Israel is Adam.

so Back to the thread what happened before the flood we can all agree on it is as stated in Gods word Its what happened after the flood that is under discussion.

we Know Adam died before the flood and we Know there will be a first and a last Adam so what was Israel a mistake I don't think God makes mistakes do you so what was the purpose of creating Israel and calling it his first born son.

I  have considered that Israel was a recreation of the first Adam to let us Know what went wrong with the creation before the Flood and why he needed to start again but in this creation the end would be entirely different God would achieve his goal by a different means instead of law and punishment he would use Love and forgiveness through his son Jesus Christ through whom all things are created.

Israel was built up first was Moses the head of the nation Gods mouthpiece Then we have Aaron the high priest then we have the priesthood the Levites.
In the last Adam Christ will be King the Head and also the high priest the church will be his helper his Eve as were the Levites were to Israel the high priests helper.

Love and Peace
Dave     
     

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #78 on: February 17, 2018, 02:52:01 PM »
we Know Adam died before the flood and we Know there will be a first and a last Adam
Exactly, and the first Adam and last Adam are clearly defined in scripture, neither being the nation of Israel!
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so what was Israel a mistake I don't think God makes mistakes do you so what was the purpose of creating Israel and calling it his first born son.
That's a foolish question Dave. Why would Israel be a mistake, its purpose is clearly defined elsewhere and has nothing to do with who the first and last Adam were.
Your method of argument is so shallow and illogical Dave, it's embarrassing. The only one reason I keep responding to your posts is to try and stop you drawing others in the wake of your deception.

Just because there is a first and a last Adam, does not give you one iota of reason to claim Israel has somehow become the first Adam. You are fighting against every aspect of scripture.

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I  have considered that Israel was a recreation of the first Adam. to let us Know what went wrong with the creation before the Flood and why he needed to start again
Utter foolish logic. Nowhere in scripture is there any reference to a recreation of Adam!

Additionally, Israel as a nation was no better at obeying the Lord than Adam the man was.
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but in this creation the end would be entirely different God would achieve his goal by a different means instead of law and punishment he would use Love and forgiveness through his son Jesus Christ through whom all things are created.
Again you abuse scripture to promote your false belief.
The Law has never ceased its action against man's pride even till today, and love and forgiveness has always been available for humble man from creation forwards.
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Israel was built up first was Moses the head of the nation Gods mouthpiece Then we have Aaron the high priest then we have the priesthood the Levites.
Meaningless waffle Dave. These facts neither add nor subtract from the discussion. Stick to useful and relevant scriptures please.
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In the last Adam Christ will be King the Head and also the high priest the church will be his helper his Eve as were the Levites were to Israel the high priests helper.   
Again meaningless waffle that proves nothing.

Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #79 on: February 17, 2018, 05:06:46 PM »
Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply You said

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Exactly, and the first Adam and last Adam are clearly defined in scripture, neither being the nation of Israel!
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Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:     

Sorry to post this again but you seam to avoid  an answer if the nation of  Israel is Gods firstborn son then he must have bean created in the image of his father like father like son.
And being there are only two Adams then it stands to reason that Gods first born son is Adam.

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That's a foolish question Dave. Why would Israel be a mistake, its purpose is clearly defined elsewhere and has nothing to do with who the first and last Adam were.
Your method of argument is so shallow and illogical Dave, it's embarrassing. The only one reason I keep responding to your posts is to try and stop you drawing others in the wake of your deception.
   

I never said Israel was a mistake I said I don't think god makes mistakes I will amend that I know God dose not make mistakes.
Where else in scripture is the purpose of israel mentioned and what dose it say I would be interested.
I think my argument is very logical and based on scripture jest because you don't believe it dose not make it wrong.

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Just because there is a first and a last Adam, does not give you one iota of reason to claim Israel has somehow become the first Adam. You are fighting against every aspect of scripture.     


I have given quite a few scripture and reasons why I believe what I say and it agrees with the overall picture of scripture which is the story of creation we have in Genesis.

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Utter foolish logic. Nowhere in scripture is there any reference to a recreation of Adam!
   

Quite right Frances but I only said I had considered it I Never said I thought it was a fact.

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Additionally, Israel as a nation was no better at obeying the Lord than Adam the man was.
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very true Frances But then I never said Israel was any better than Adam, was Adam jest one man when Gods firstborn son was a whole nation.

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Again you abuse scripture to promote your false belief.
The Law has never ceased its action against man's pride even till today, and love and forgiveness has always been available for humble man from creation forwards.   

Where did I say the Law had ceased The law tells us what sin is with, Christ came the covenant of grace God would achieve his Goal which he stated in Genesis To create mankind in his image this would be achieved through Love and forgiveness.

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Israel was built up first was Moses the head of the nation Gods mouthpiece Then we have Aaron the high priest then we have the priesthood the Levites.

Meaningless waffle Dave. These facts neither add nor subtract from the discussion. Stick to useful and relevant scriptures please.
   

What it shows Frances is how Gods firstborn son was created and is a mirror image of Christ and his church and all that belong to him at his second coming.

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The only one reason I keep responding to your posts is to try and stop you drawing others in the wake of your deception.   

If you really want to help others then you need to give an explanation of what you believe and why not for my sake but for any unbelievers who mite read this thread jest saying what I say is waffle is not helpful to them.

Love and Peace
Dave