Author Topic: Israel is Adam  (Read 1410 times)

Description: man in the Image of God

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 52 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #64 on: February 12, 2018, 01:03:46 PM »
Hi John
Thank you for your reply and I can agree with much of what you say yes there was a creation process be fore the flood no question and we do well to believe it.

But my contention is after God destroyed that creation he began again with Noah and everything that was on the ark he had no need to recreate everything the only thing missing was mankind in his image.

So God uses the same creation process as in genesis 1 the only difference is the things created become symbolic the best example I have is the 4th day  4000 years after Noah when God created the sun the moon and stars.
The sun represents Christ the light of the world the moon the church the lesser light and the star's the body of believers.

Every day of this creation God pronounced as good on the last day which will be Christ's millennial reign God will pronounce it very good.

We need to take the following  verse into consideration.

.
I think you should rethink your ideas about creation and the flood. The bible records Gods verdict on creation, which included Adam, as being very good. Yet you are impling that it was not very good

*[[Isa 46:10/KJVLite]]* Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:

       


The question is what end from what beginning  I say the creation story in Genesis covers the whole creation process from.

. 1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth   

To

.12  And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

 13  I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last     


Christ is the beginning and the end he knows the end from the beginning not only that but he tells us the end from the beginning.


Quote
.
"The object of this thread was to try to identify the one who was the pattern of the one who was to come which is Christ the only one in scripture as far as I can see is Israel as the scriptures I have posted in previous posts will support."

I have no idea what you mean by this.

The only authority for seeing examples of types in the bible is the one Paul gives in Romans of Adam the first man and Jesus the second Adam   

What I mean is that the history of  Israel mirrors the life of Christ on many points so we have a legitimate reason to see Israel as the pattern of the one who is to come we are also told that Israel is Gods son some 600.000 persons which would seam to indicate that man in Gods image is not one man and one woman.

Is God has a son then it stands to reason that it would be the image of the father.

Love and Peace
Dave

Online John

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #65 on: February 12, 2018, 01:26:14 PM »
Dave,
        " But my contention is after God destroyed that creation he began again with Noah and everything that was on the ark he had no need to recreate everything the only thing missing was mankind in his image."
Noah and his sons were on the Ark. They repopulated the world.
There was no new creation of man.
There was no new creation of the earth.

Israel cannot be a mirror of Jesus's life as Israel constantly fell away from following God.

The creation story is just that how God created the world.

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #66 on: February 12, 2018, 05:03:54 PM »
support.

As for the scriptures I have posted there has not bean many alternative explanations I wonder why that is.
Other members have repeatedly given you clear explanations for those scriptures Dave. The problem is that you have no interest in listening, and instead completely oppose the clear meanings of those scriptures, bending and twisting them into your perverse doctrine.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 52 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #67 on: February 12, 2018, 05:17:04 PM »
Dave,
        " But my contention is after God destroyed that creation he began again with Noah and everything that was on the ark he had no need to recreate everything the only thing missing was mankind in his image."
Noah and his sons were on the Ark. They repopulated the world.
There was no new creation of man.
There was no new creation of the earth.

Israel cannot be a mirror of Jesus's life as Israel constantly fell away from following God.

The creation story is just that how God created the world.

Hi John
Thank you for your reply Keeps the old grey cells working you said.

Quote
Noah and his sons were on the Ark. They repopulated the world.
There was no new creation of man.

Agreed but don't forget we are talking about man (mankind)  in the image of God.

Quote
There was no new creation of the earth.
   

2Co 5:17  Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

2 Corinthians 5:17 [Full Chapter]
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.

But Paul speaks of a new creation so why can't there be other creations.

Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
   


If Israel is Gods Son and the scripture above states that He is then it stands to reason he would be the image of God if any creature has offspring then they are the image of the parants are they not and if God has a son then he would be in the image of the father as Christ is.
The story of Israel is God chastising his son through the law but this method failed so he began again with Christ but with better method Love and forgivness.

Love and Peace
Dave






Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #68 on: February 12, 2018, 06:05:07 PM »
2 Corinthians 5:17 [Full Chapter]
Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
But Paul speaks of a new creation so why can't there be other creations.

Paul is talking about spiritual creation Dave.
When I became a Christian, my spirit is reborn, but my flesh was still the old cranky body, warts and all.

Likewise Noah was never a new creation, nor was the earth recreated after the flood as you keep claiming.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #69 on: February 12, 2018, 06:14:16 PM »

I know I can be a little bull headed but then aren't we all, we all think we are right and that's ok what's not right is when we say someone else is wrong then we are judging them and we know that's not right we have a righteous judge who will judge us and I believe he will judge what is in the heart not what's in the mind.

Sorry Dave, but I judge that your "Israel is Adam" doctrine is demonic and utterly false.

That judgement is not mine Dave, but what I believe the Lord is saying in my spirit, and through his scriptures.

I commend you for your willingness to explore the scriptures outside of the box, but it seems that stubbornness has enabled Satan to take you captive. I'm sorry if that offends you Dave, but you need to climb down from pride and let the Lord lead you back to truth.

Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 52 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #70 on: February 12, 2018, 06:28:14 PM »
Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply you said

Quote
.   
Paul is talking about spiritual creation Dave.
When I became a Christian, my spirit is reborn, but my flesh was still the old cranky body, warts and all 

Quite right Frances I think I have said this before nice to know we can agree but its still a new creation.

Quote
.   
Likewise Noah was never a new creation, nor was the earth recreated after the flood as you keep claiming   

If you have read any of my previous posts you will see I have never said this what I have said everything that God had created was on the ark God had no need to recreate the world or the things on the ark.
The only thing to be created was man (mankind) in the image of God.

Love and Peace
Dave


Offline davetaff

  • Moderator
  • ***
  • Posts: 1818
  • Total likes: 113
  • Thanked: 52 times
  • Gender: Male
  • New :God is Love
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #71 on: February 14, 2018, 02:56:16 PM »
Sorry Dave, but I judge that your "Israel is Adam" doctrine is demonic and utterly false.

Quote
That judgement is not mine Dave, but what I believe the Lord is saying in my spirit, and through his scriptures.

I commend you for your willingness to explore the scriptures outside of the box, but it seems that stubbornness has enabled Satan to take you captive. I'm sorry if that offends you Dave, but you need to climb down from pride and let the Lord lead you back to truth.

Hi Frances

Quote
That judgement is not mine Dave, but what I believe the Lord is saying in my spirit, and through his scriptures.

     

Luk 6:37  Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
   


I'll wait for our Lords judgement if you don't mind.

I take it you want me to believe in the standard belief in 6 days God created the heavens and the earth I do believe it, and on the last day he created man in his image male and female he created them I believe that to.

Then he said to these two people rule the world and subdue it realy jest two people then God created a garden in the east and planted two trees perhaps a apple and a pear and God said dont eat the apples or you will die.

Sounds like something you tell little children at sunday school.
But if those two people are Christ and his church then it makes perfect sense I will again post a few verse I have posted them before but everyone seams to ignore them maybe you can give me your verssion.

[Isa 46:10/KJVLite]]* Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:   

What dose God tell us at the beginning but the end of creation which Is Christ Jesus our lord who is the express image of the Father.

Joh 5:17  But Jesus answered them, My Father worketh hitherto, and I work   

If the father was still working 2000 years ago when did he rest if you read Hebrews you will see Gods rest is still waiting for us.

  Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:   

If Israel is God Firstborn son He would be the image of his Parent would he not all 600.000 that left Egypt The nation of Israel is Mankind in Gods Image and the pattern of the one to Come which is Christ.

Now I would like your version of these texts if they do not mean what I have said what do they mean.

Love and Peace
Dave