Author Topic: Israel is Adam  (Read 1636 times)

Description: man in the Image of God

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Online davetaff

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #40 on: February 05, 2018, 11:45:25 AM »
There is nothing ordinary about Jesus, he is no ordinary man.  God himself tells you exactly how he is no ordinary man.  Israel is imperfect, Jesus is perfect...the moulds are very different.

Read Hebrews 1, the entire chapter.

The Supremacy of God?s Son

1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

?You are my Son,

today I have begotten you??

Or again,

"I will be to him a father,

and he shall be to me a son??

6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,

?Let all God?s angels worship him.?

7 Of the angels he says,

?He makes his angels winds,

and his ministers a flame of fire.?

8 But of the Son he says,

?Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,

the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

   9    You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;

therefore God, your God, has anointed you

with tthe oil of gladness beyond your companions.?

10 And,

?You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,

and the heavens are the work of your hands;

   11    they will perish, but you remain;

they will all wear out like a garment,

   12    like a robe you will roll them up,

like a garment they will be changed.

But you are the same,

and your years will have no end.?

13 And to which of the angels has he ever said,

?Sit at my right hand

until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet??

14 Are they not all ministering spirits ysent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

He is the firstborn before Adam not after.  Through him he created the earth.  God calls him God and Lord.  You are making him not only lower than the angels, but lower than man and a nation.

Hi Serenity
Thank you for that lovely post to which I agree great Scripture
But when I  said Jesus was an ordinary man I was thinking of these Scriptures.

.
Heb 2:7 Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: note View more

Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.



 7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

  Phi 2:8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross 


So Christ humbled himself and became a servant to mankind through what he suffered.

Love and Peace
Dave


Offline Cariad

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #41 on: February 05, 2018, 03:10:11 PM »
Hello @davetaff,

When the Holy Spirit used the figure of Adam to represent Christ, He made it plain in what way that figure was to be used, and Adam's identity needed no explanation for he was the subject of the record of Scripture.

You are seeking to prove that the identity of Adam in Romans 5:12-21, and 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 & 45, who is described as, 'one man' in Rom.5:12, was in fact 'the nation of Israel' collectively.  Which cannot be spoken of in terms of, 'one man', for it comprises many, 'men'.

It is necessary that it be one man only, in order for the truth being emphasised by the figure, to be perfectly conveyed (Rom.5:17).

In Christ Jesus
Chris


Online davetaff

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #42 on: February 05, 2018, 04:24:30 PM »
Hello @davetaff,

When the Holy Spirit used the figure of Adam to represent Christ, He made it plain in what way that figure was to be used, and Adam's identity needed no explanation for he was the subject of the record of Scripture.

You are seeking to prove that the identity of Adam in Romans 5:12-21, and 1 Corinthians 15:21-22 & 45, who is described as, 'one man' in Rom.5:12, was in fact 'the nation of Israel' collectively.  Which cannot be spoken of in terms of, 'one man', for it comprises many, 'men'.

It is necessary that it be one man only, in order for the truth being emphasised by the figure, to be perfectly conveyed (Rom.5:17).

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Hi Chris
Thank you for your post Its all a question of how we view man in Gods image and as I have said many times before the only one in scripture who is said to be the express image of his person is Jesus Christ.
I don't believe he was the express image at his first advent but will be at his second when he and his bride are united and become one this is the express image of God.

this man in Gods image is made up of numerous people under one head which is Christ Jesus our Lord as you say Israel are many so will Christ be in the end.

These words of St Paul come to mind.

1Co 13:12  For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
     


what is the glass (mirror) we see through I would say and have tried to show not very well perhaps the mirror is the history of Israel.

Love and Peace
Dave

 

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #43 on: February 05, 2018, 05:16:46 PM »
I posted the entire chapter 1 of Hebrews intentionally.  It clearly shows Jesus is not adam in God's eyes...He is IS God and Lord, not will be. 

Unless Dave you are suggesting that Adam us equal to God, are you?

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #44 on: February 05, 2018, 05:19:39 PM »
Let me put the box of cherries away so all of the scripture can be taken in context or even it not ignored or circumvented when it clearly shows something clearly not on the theological agenda.

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2018, 08:35:34 PM »

I don't believe he was the express image at his first advent but will be at his second when he and his bride are united and become one this is the express image of God.

Really Dave?
You're actually saying that Christ was not in the express image of God at his first advent? As usual, you are directly contradicting scripture.

Hebrews1v1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3And He is the radiance of His glory and the express image of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.


And this-

Jn14v8Philip said to Him, ?Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.? 9Jesus said to him, ?Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ?Show us the Father?? 10?Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11?Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.

Your stubborn obsession is opening the door to demonic delusions Dave.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Online davetaff

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2018, 02:38:27 PM »
Really Dave?
You're actually saying that Christ was not in the express image of God at his first advent? As usual, you are directly contradicting scripture.

Hebrews1v1God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world. 3And He is the radiance of His glory and the express image of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4having become as much better than the angels, as He has inherited a more excellent name than they.


And this-

Jn14v8Philip said to Him, ?Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.? 9Jesus said to him, ?Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, ?Show us the Father?? 10?Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. 11?Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves.

Your stubborn obsession is opening the door to demonic delusions Dave.

Hi Frances
I believe every word of the scriptures you have posted Christ is all these things and a lot more as I have said in other posts.

But if as you say Christ came as God at his first advent how could he be tempted because we are told

Jas 1:13  Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
     
 

So Christ could not be tempted in the wilderness if he was fully God it was only as man he could be tempted as we are tempted.

Php 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9  Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11  And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
     


I think this scripture will answer your accusation.

Love and Peace
Dave

Online davetaff

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2018, 02:53:42 PM »
I posted the entire chapter 1 of Hebrews intentionally.  It clearly shows Jesus is not adam in God's eyes...He is IS God and Lord, not will be. 

Unless Dave you are suggesting that Adam us equal to God, are you?

Hi Serenity
I love the book of Hebrews and believe every word and I am not disputing any of it Christ was before all things through him and for him all things were created that are in Heaven and earth.

No I am not saying we are Adam I am saying Israel was the first Adam of this creation and Christ is the last Adam and being that we are in Christ and are part of his body then in a way we will be part of the last Adam.

As for Christ at his first advent and being a man of flesh and blood I offer this scripture.

Php 2:6  Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
Php 2:7  But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Php 2:8  And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
Php 2:9  Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
Php 2:10  That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
Php 2:11  And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
   


This scripture is equally true as is Hebrews it shows quite clearly that Christ came into the world as a man not God.

Love and Peace
Dave