Author Topic: Israel is Adam  (Read 827 times)

Description: man in the Image of God

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Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #32 on: February 03, 2018, 02:44:29 PM »



Well yes - BUT - Jesus was born of the Holy Spirit ....  re : Matthew 1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus the Messiah came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy Spirit.


Tell me anyone else who has been born from heaven/Holy Spirit.

No one - not even "born again" are actually conceived through the Holy Spirit....

Yes TJ you are quite right Jesus's Father was God via the spirit can't argue with that and was the son of God.
But he was also the son of man so which man was he the son of not Joseph so who, we  could say son of mankind but that dose not sound right to me.

but if I am right and Israel is Adam and the numerous prophecies in the OT say that the Christ shall come out of Israel then the term the son of man makes perfect sense.

Love and Peace
Dave   

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #33 on: February 03, 2018, 07:54:32 PM »
Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply nice to Know that we have much that we can agree on it seams our only bone of contention is my assertion that Israel in Adam for me its not a leap in the dark but a leap into  the light.
Everything about thread is you trying to prove that Adam is Israel something I utterly reject as unbiblical nonsense.
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This is very true and what I have bean saying all along and the only one we can see that is a mirror for Christ is Israel or are you saying that someone who lived thousands of years before the flood maybe a cave man is the image of Christ and I am thinking Of Christ at his second coming and being united with his bride.
I cannot understand this inane rambling Dave. You are just clutching at straws.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #34 on: February 03, 2018, 08:03:59 PM »
Yes TJ you are quite right Jesus's Father was God via the spirit can't argue with that and was the son of God.
But he was also the son of man so which man was he the son of not Joseph so who, we  could say son of mankind but that dose not sound right to me.
Whether you like it or not, "son of man" simply means a human being, part of mankind, and by extension backwards, a son of Adam. You Dave, are also a "son of man", (although there are many times I have cause to doubt that!)
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but if I am right and Israel is Adam and the numerous prophecies in the OT say that the Christ shall come out of Israel then the term the son of man makes perfect sense.
But, Dave, to claim that Israel is Adam is unbiblical drivel, so that makes your wrong yet again. Son of man means what it says, nothing more.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #35 on: February 04, 2018, 12:25:55 AM »
Yes TJ you are quite right Jesus's Father was God via the spirit can't argue with that and was the son of God.
But he was also the son of man so which man was he the son of not Joseph so who, we  could say son of mankind but that dose not sound right to me.

but if I am right and Israel is Adam and the numerous prophecies in the OT say that the Christ shall come out of Israel then the term the son of man makes perfect sense.

Love and Peace
Dave

well @davetaff - you certainly have a way of creating replies and discussion  :D

But the only link I can see is that Adam sinned and and Israel sinned - as we all sin....

Jesus is the Son of God and the Son of man - as He is Lord of the Sabbath .

The only scriptural connection is that Jesus became flesh and dwelt among us   .

Looking at Matthew 26:64  "You have said so," Jesus replied. "But I say to all of you: From now on you will see the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of the Mighty One and coming on the clouds of heaven."

Being the Son of man - He is the firstborn of many
Son of man signifies His identity with us - when He is Lord as we make Him Lord. [when we do not make Him Lord He is still soveriegn] as He sufferred for us [does not mean that we will not know suffering]

Jesus was aways the Son of God throughout eternity and in our short existence - He now calls Himself the Son of man - serving humanity [being fully human] Son of man - because He served humankind and to be One with them.

But Jesus was also the Son of God and so you see the healings and the raising of he dead and the Lordship of Israel  and the Messiah guiding king david - and the Lordship of Jesus  guiding the sons [bowing down]  as son's should - to the Lordship of the Son of man.

Israel did always not do this [therefore they were not always son's]

Son of man only signifies that Jesus is Lord in flesh serving the people - He is not now as He has died in flesh - that we might be Son's of God and that He might be the frstborn pf many.

Son of God also signifies that He was bowing to His Fathers Authority and not making Himself King.

Hiow can God realete to us and cause us to understand except that He describe a Son growing up ............

Will God cease to be God ?

The Son of man is the Son of God also - so God is trying to relate to you "that the Son grows up"

He becomes the Lord ..

Okay look from God the Father's eyes - as He will be your new light n the new earth and His Son will rule ...

He will not be the Son of man there - as He will rule over all [not that they have lost free will - but that they have a will like He]

The Father will still be the Father - how can God relate to you now in your tme [how does a Son become a son and grow up to save the world "all tose who believe" and die and go back to being God in etenity - the Trinity...

Son of man is only used in a temporal sense in the gosples - to try to communicate with you - that He was here to serve .


As a son tries to please his father...

okay let me share a vision with you ...............I keep seeing rays of light coming through clouds - lke the light has dawned ...

This light is not naturall light - but a light that transcends normal light I see the Holy Spirit in clouds bouncing around in this sky .

I have seen this before and it means the Lord Jesus is [the Son of man] is about to do something new...

You have no choice - but to go with this ....

This is your will becoming His ...










Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #36 on: February 04, 2018, 06:57:57 PM »
Hi TJ
Thank you for your reply there is much I can agree with you did say.

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.  But the only link I can see is that Adam sinned and and Israel sinned - as we all sin.   

.   12  Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: note

 13  (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law   


Although all sinned and all died sin was not imputed where there is no law only Israel had the law and only Israel could come under the curse of the law which was death as a nation.
This happens when they rejected Jesus Christ but they will be resurrected in the end times.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #37 on: February 04, 2018, 07:21:10 PM »
Everything about thread is you trying to prove that Adam is Israel something I utterly reject as unbiblical nonsense. I cannot understand this inane rambling Dave. You are just clutching at straws.

Hi Frances
Of course you are entitled to your opinion but it don't mean a great deal if you dont have anything to back it up.

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.Whether you like it or not, "son of man" simply means a human being, part of mankind, and by extension backwards, a son of Adam. You Dave, are also a "son of man", (although there are many times I have cause to doubt that!   

So Christ was jest an ordinary man like me and you I don't have a problem with that he had to be an ordinary man to to complete the purpose set before him.
He also fulfilled all the prophecies of the OT which said he would come out of Israel which makes him man that came out of the man in Gods image Israel.

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But, Dave, to claim that Israel is Adam is unbiblical drivel, so that makes your wrong yet again. Son of man means what it says, nothing more   

If its drivel prove it from scripture.

Love and Peace
Dave

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #38 on: February 04, 2018, 09:44:41 PM »
There is nothing ordinary about Jesus, he is no ordinary man.  God himself tells you exactly how he is no ordinary man.  Israel is imperfect, Jesus is perfect...the moulds are very different.

Read Hebrews 1, the entire chapter.

The Supremacy of God?s Son

1 Long ago, at many times and in many ways, God spoke to our fathers by the prophets, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed the heir of all things, through whom also he created the world. 3 He is the radiance of the glory of God and the exact imprint of his nature, and he upholds the universe by the word of his power. After making purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become as much superior to angels as the name he has inherited is more excellent than theirs.

5 For to which of the angels did God ever say,

?You are my Son,

today I have begotten you??

Or again,

"I will be to him a father,

and he shall be to me a son??

6 And again, when he brings the firstborn into the world, he says,

?Let all God?s angels worship him.?

7 Of the angels he says,

?He makes his angels winds,

and his ministers a flame of fire.?

8 But of the Son he says,

?Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,

the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

   9    You have loved righteousness and hated wickedness;

therefore God, your God, has anointed you

with tthe oil of gladness beyond your companions.?

10 And,

?You, Lord, laid the foundation of the earth in the beginning,

and the heavens are the work of your hands;

   11    they will perish, but you remain;

they will all wear out like a garment,

   12    like a robe you will roll them up,

like a garment they will be changed.

But you are the same,

and your years will have no end.?

13 And to which of the angels has he ever said,

?Sit at my right hand

until I make your enemies a footstool for your feet??

14 Are they not all ministering spirits ysent out to serve for the sake of those who are to inherit salvation?

He is the firstborn before Adam not after.  Through him he created the earth.  God calls him God and Lord.  You are making him not only lower than the angels, but lower than man and a nation.








Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #39 on: February 05, 2018, 12:27:04 AM »
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As a son tries to please his father...

okay let me share a vision with you ...............I keep seeing rays of light coming through clouds - lke the light has dawned ...

This light is not naturall light - but a light that transcends normal light I see the Holy Spirit in clouds bouncing around in this sky .

I have seen this before and it means the Lord Jesus is [the Son of man] is about to do something new...

You have no choice - but to go with this ....

This is your will becoming His ... 

Ahh must be coincidence..

    This sundays message was about  "New Beginnings"