Author Topic: Israel is Adam  (Read 1640 times)

Description: man in the Image of God

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Offline davetaff

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #16 on: January 26, 2018, 03:46:30 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your reply I have not made myself clear again I also use the KJV and  Deut.32:8, is as you say but when you put your curser on it a window opens and you get the verse as it is translated in ESV and they seam very different I jest wondered why.

Back to the subject in hand as I thing I said before we will need to look at the life of Christ and work backwards to find how he compares to the first Adam which I think is Israel and most people believe was the first human being created By God.

Yes we are all descended from Adam the first man created by God that's jest common sense and we know the word of God was preached to those before the flood even so it was only Noah who was found Righteous in Gods sight.

So God begins again using everything he created in the beginning that was in the ark but he still had to finish his creation mankind in his image.

so why did he create Israel why not bring Christ into the world as King strait away I don't know I have thought maybe it was a recreation of the first Adam to show us what went wrong and why we need a redeemer I do feel we owe a debt of gratitude to Israel for all they have suffered being Gods chosen People.

So where to start we all know the story of the Birth of Christ the three Kings coming to pay homage and there gifts gold frankincense and myrrh can they represent Abraham Isaac and Jacob and there gifts Gold for the king frankincense for the spirit and myrrh for anointing and the shepherds all those sent by God to shepherd his people Israel,  jest a little speculation on my part.

Shortly after his birth his parents are told to take him into Egypt as did Israel, this was to avoid

Mat 2:16  Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.     

and to preserve his life  the same reason Israel went into Egypt.

I will leave it here for now.

Love and Peace
Dave

       

Serenity

  • Guest
Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #17 on: January 26, 2018, 07:40:49 PM »
Good old Noah, imagine the local loonie as he would have been seen, actually being right.  Has me think of John the Baptist crazy guy too.  God just loves to use those people least looked upon by man for his good and purpose.

Just thought would have a little ramble, been trying to follow these added threads, i think i am going to need stitch down my eyebrows pretty soon  :rolleyes:

I will attempt to be serious for a moment though in this bizarre theological tic tac toe.

Adam was Adam.
Noah was Noah
Israel was and is Israel
Moses was Moses
Jesus was and is Jesus

Adam is talked about as man, Adam.
Jesus is talked about as the 2nd Adam.
Therefore, Israel, Noah, Moses et al cannot also be Adams lest the Scriptures describe them as Adam 1.2, 1.4 etc...because the next 'Adam' along numerically Scripturally - is Jesus, end of really.

Noah, Israel, Moses, John the Baptist, insert any fave biblical patriarchs here, are people chosen by God to carry out a role and job for him, it's just the way it is.

Backs away slowly now and returns to my campfire with my nice n toasty low cal marshmellows and has a knit  knit:

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Offline davetaff

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #18 on: January 27, 2018, 10:54:20 AM »
Good old Noah, imagine the local loonie as he would have been seen, actually being right.  Has me think of John the Baptist crazy guy too.  God just loves to use those people least looked upon by man for his good and purpose.

Just thought would have a little ramble, been trying to follow these added threads, i think i am going to need stitch down my eyebrows pretty soon  :rolleyes:

I will attempt to be serious for a moment though in this bizarre theological tic tac toe.

Adam was Adam.
Noah was Noah
Israel was and is Israel
Moses was Moses
Jesus was and is Jesus

Adam is talked about as man, Adam.
Jesus is talked about as the 2nd Adam.
Therefore, Israel, Noah, Moses et al cannot also be Adams lest the Scriptures describe them as Adam 1.2, 1.4 etc...because the next 'Adam' along numerically Scripturally - is Jesus, end of really.

Noah, Israel, Moses, John the Baptist, insert any fave biblical patriarchs here, are people chosen by God to carry out a role and job for him, it's just the way it is.

Backs away slowly now and returns to my campfire with my nice n toasty low cal marshmellows and has a knit  knit:

Hi Serenity
Thank you for your post seams pretty strait forward as you say everyone is who the scriptures say they are all chosen to do Gods work which of course is the work of creation.

To continue Herod kills all the young children around Bethlehem this can remind us of the first born of Egypt being killed which allowed Israel to leave Egypt.

Shortly after Herod  dies and Jesus returns to Israel the words

Mat 2:15  And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
       


These words apply both to Israel and to Jesus they are both seen as sons of God in which case should be seen as Brothers the story of Cain and Able come to mind.

The next big event is Jesus turning the water into wine six stone jars represent the six days of creation the water the word of God up to that time the water is turned to wine represents the blood which gives the body of Christ its life.

Love and Peace
Dave


Offline davetaff

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #19 on: January 28, 2018, 02:48:18 PM »
Hi
The next big event in Jesus life is his baptism in the river Jorden why jest that river why not any other body of water I believe our lord gave us the answer when he said.

Mat 3:15  And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mat 3:16  And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17  And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.     


What dose fulfill all righteousness mean to do the right thing the right thing to do was to pass through the jorden river as Israel had done many years before and in so doing recieved the blessing of the father.

the next thing is

[color=redMat 4:1  Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Mat 4:2  And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
]       [/color]

this also mirrrors Israel forty years in the wilderness except it was only forty days but he did not sercome to the temtations of the devil as Israel did and reverted to Idol worship and paid the price for there folly all the generation that came out of Egypt perished ecept for Joshua and Caleb.

So Joshua led the new generation through the Jorden River into the promised land a mirror image of our Joshua Jesus leading all those who are born again into the real promised land his glorious Kingdom.

Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Exo 4:23  And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
   


Let us prey the prayer Thy Kingdom come thy will be done.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Tes Johnson

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #20 on: January 29, 2018, 01:05:51 AM »
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Hi
The next big event in Jesus life is his baptism in the river Jorden why jest that river why not any other body of water I believe our lord gave us the answer when he said.

Mat 3:15  And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.
Mat 3:16  And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
Mat 3:17  And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.     


What dose fulfill all righteousness mean to do the right thing the right thing to do was to pass through the jorden river as Israel had done many years before and in so doing recieved the blessing of the father.

the next thing is

[color=redMat 4:1  Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
Mat 4:2  And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.
]       [/color]

this also mirrrors Israel forty years in the wilderness except it was only forty days but he did not sercome to the temtations of the devil as Israel did and reverted to Idol worship and paid the price for there folly all the generation that came out of Egypt perished ecept for Joshua and Caleb.

So Joshua led the new generation through the Jorden River into the promised land a mirror image of our Joshua Jesus leading all those who are born again into the real promised land his glorious Kingdom.

Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:
Exo 4:23  And I say unto thee, Let my son go, that he may serve me: and if thou refuse to let him go, behold, I will slay thy son, even thy firstborn.
   


Let us prey the prayer Thy Kingdom come thy will be done.

Love and Peace
Dave






It's a prefigure/type/shadow/mirror image/ .

By linking Jesus' baptism with Israel ?

I would link it to my baptism and my walk as a type of.

The way through the wilderness was a lesson to us today - walknng through the waters was a type of baptism in Jesus.

But whether the people in the wilderness had Jesus "born in them is another question"

You are linking the death of Jesus here with "those who did not die to their own needs or desires"

Whereas Jesus did and died in flesh also - He was God in flesh.

This metaphor/image/ prefigure/type/ is not a correct link .
 
I would link this with myself - but I would not link to Jesus.. as Jesus did not need to be baptised [He only did so in obedience to His Father.



In the same way Jesus was never Adam and Adam was never baptised. your linking is not correct

Jesus was without sin and He had no need to die in flesh [but to save us]

He had no need to die in baptism - but did it for us - therefore your analogy is not correct.


Offline davetaff

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #21 on: January 29, 2018, 04:00:43 PM »
Hi TJ
Thank you for your reply not to sure I understand it all you said.

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This metaphor/image/ prefigure/type/ is not a correct link .
 
I would link this with myself - but I would not link to Jesus.. as Jesus did not need to be baptised [He only did so in obedience to His Father.
   

Why is it not correct please explain, it was necessary for Jesus to be baptised to Fulfil all righteousness it was the right thing to do to fulfil what is written in the scriptures as the first son of God Israel ( Adam ) passed through the Jorden so also the second Adam.
 
Exo 4:22  And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:     

Quote
In the same way Jesus was never Adam and Adam was never baptised. your linking is not correct   

If I am right and Israel is Adam then Adam was first baptised in the Red sea baptism being a symbol of birth

1Co 10:2  And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea;   

All those that came out of Egypt died in the desert except for two the next generation were baptised in the Jorden symbolising rebirth being born again.

Quote
He had no need to die in baptism - but did it for us - therefore your analogy is not correct.
   

In what way am I incorrect he was baptised to show us it is the only way we can enter the promised land his kingdom.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Deborah

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #22 on: January 29, 2018, 07:08:37 PM »
Hi Chris
Thanks for your reply I have not made myself clear again I also use the KJV and  Deut.32:8, is as you say but when you put your curser on it a window opens and you get the verse as it is translated in ESV and they seam very different I jest wondered why.


Dave

Hi Dave

KJV of Deuteronomy 32:8 -
When the most High divided to the nations their inheritance,
when He separated the sons of Adam,
He set the bounds of the people
according to the number of
the children of Israel.

ESV (and some other modern versions) -
When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of
the sons of God.

Why the difference? The KJV was translated from the Masoretic Hebrew text (which dates from the 9th century). This text says "children of Israel". But the Dead Sea Scrolls text (which the KJV translators didn't have), which is a thousand years older than the Masoretic text, says "sons of God".

So we have two variant readings - which is something very common in Bible texts - and the translators have to decide between them. Many people think the older version is more likely to be the correct one (as it's not unlikely for a copying error to have occurred some time in the thousand years in between). But nobody can be certain, unless another very old text is found.
"His divine power has given us everything we need for a godly life." (II Peter 1:3a)

Offline davetaff

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #23 on: January 30, 2018, 01:11:51 PM »
Hi Deborah
Thank you for that clarification not easy to decide which translation to use I suppose its the one that is supported with rest of scripture.

Love and Peace
Dave