Author Topic: Israel is Adam  (Read 1409 times)

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Offline davetaff

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Israel is Adam
« on: January 22, 2018, 04:20:54 PM »
Hi
It seams I have been spoiling threads with my Asserssons that Israel is Adam so I thought I would start this thread and see where it goes.
I don't have all the Peaces at the present time so for give me if I can't answer all your questions but I will do my best and if anyone has any good arguments to refute what I say please let me Know I would Wellcome them.

So where to start I think I will start with

Isa 46:9  Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,
Isa 46:10  Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:
   


why here well it is to remind us that there is only one God he is the creator of all things in heaven and earth and he knows the beginning and the end not only that but he also tells us the end from the beginning.

so we know the beginning is the creation account in Genesis and the end is a new heaven and earth so in the Genesis account god tells us what he will do to achieve his goal.
what is Gods goal mankind living on  paradise earth man in Gods image.

Between Gods six days of creation and the flood there was an  unspecified time and quite a lot happened which resulted in God destroying all living creatures except those taken on the ark with Noah.

Gen 1:2  And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
 


During the flood the earth was returned to its original state and God begins a new creation but not a creation of everything everything
God needed was on the ark with Noah the only thing missing was Man in Gods Image.

If the first Adam was destroyed in the flood then God will create a new man in His image what will he look like we are told this in Hebrews.

Heb 1:1  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
H   


Christ is the express image of his person and Christ is the last Adam who we are to compare with the first Adam.

Rom 5:14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
   


I have to leave it there for now but will be back I welcome questions and criticism but keep it friendly

Love and Peace
Dave

I would like to begin when Noah stepped of the ark           



Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #1 on: January 23, 2018, 09:22:36 AM »
During the flood the earth was returned to its original state and God begins a new creation
This is your first error Dave.
There was absolutely no new creation after the flood!

In the flood, everything was trashed, apart from what was in the ark. The world outside was completely submerged killing all living things.
When the door of the ark was opened, out walked men women and animal life, from which all subsequent life on the planet sprang.
ie. The ark contained the remnants of the original creation, which in obedience to God, populated the planet.

There was no new creation whatsoever, after the flood.

Dave, you need to stop deluding yourself over this issue, and please stop trying to deceive others with its nonsense.


Quote
but not a creation of everything everything God needed was on the ark with Noah the only thing missing was Man in Gods Image.

If the first Adam was destroyed in the flood then God will create a new man in His image what will he look like we are told this in Hebrews.
This is your second error Dave.
When Genesis refers to the creation of Adam, the Hebrew word refers not just to Adam the first man, but mankind including Eve.
Thus man in the likeness of God refers to all mankind, me also, although I'm never quite sure about you Dave! Lol
That of course is a deliberate slur against your better nature, but you can't have it both ways. If you believe being in the image of God refers only to the Adam God originally made, then it cannot apply to you.
Being that I reject that fallacy, I, and I assume most others here, can rightly claim to be in the image of God, but not you Dave.
I don't know what image you are made in. Maybe an ostrich cos you've got your head in the sand! :thumbs_up:
Quote
Heb 1:1  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
H   


Christ is the express image of his person and Christ is the last Adam who we are to compare with the first Adam.

Rom 5:14  Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
   


I have to leave it there for now but will be back I welcome questions and criticism but keep it friendly

Love and Peace
Dave
None of the above scriptures aid what you are trying to say Dave.
Quote
I would like to begin when Noah stepped of the ark         
And your beginning with Noah stepping off the Ark Dave, is also the end for your pet doctrine, because Noah's family and animals are all a continuation of the old creation.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Cariad

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2018, 11:01:45 AM »
(Romans 5:12-21) 

'Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,
even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,
who is the figure of Him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.
For if through the offence of one many be dead,
much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation,
but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one;
much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.'


* The emphasis in these verses is upon the word, ONE. 
* Comparison is made between the ONE man Adam, and Christ, who is also ONE.
* This is how Adam as a figure of Christ is presented to us by the Holy Spirit.
* ONE man and not one nation.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad





Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2018, 04:09:27 PM »
This is your first error Dave.
There was absolutely no new creation after the flood!

In the flood, everything was trashed, apart from what was in the ark. The worlgreed outside was completely submerged killing all living things.
When the door of the ark was opened, out walked men women and animal life, from which all subsequent life on the planet sprang.
ie. The ark contained the remnants of the original creation, which in obedience to God, populated the planet.

There was no new creation whatsoever, after the flood.

Hi Frances
Thank you for your reply I agree with your above statment and if you read mine properly you will see that is what I said except for one small point there was no man in Gods image on board the ark unless you are going to tell me Noah was and we are to compare Noah with Christ which would be silly don't you think so God needed to create a man in his image     [/color




Dave, you need to stop deluding yourself over this issue, and please stop trying to deceive others with its nonsense.

This is your second error Dave.
When Genesis refers to the creation of Adam, the Hebrew word refers not just to Adam the first man, but mankind including Eve.
Thus man in the likeness of God refers to all mankind, me also, although I'm never quite sure about you Dave! Lol

Well done Frances you got that right I have been saying for a long time that we should the first Adam as mankind thank you for agreeing with me what you need to realise now is this will be realised in Christ at his return     

That of course is a deliberate slur against your better nature, but you can't have it both ways. If you believe being in the image of God refers only to the Adam God originally made, then it cannot apply to you.

When have I said I am in the Image of the first Adam I have said that one ordinary man is not in the image of God never has been and never will be Man in the image of God is Christ Jesus in his glory the man Christ united with his body the woman his Eve this is Man in Gods Image that God promised to create in Genesis.     


Being that I reject that fallacy, I, and I assume most others here, can rightly claim to be in the image of God, but not you Dave.
I don't know what image you are made in. Maybe an ostrich cos you've got your head in the sand! :thumbs_up:None of the above scriptures aid what you are trying to say Dave.And your beginning with Noah stepping off the Ark Dave, is also the end for your pet doctrine, because Noah's family and animals are all a continuation of the old creation.

We as individuals are not in the image of God it is only when we are all united in one body the body of believers the body of Christ who is our head this is man in the image of God and this man will live on this earth which will be a paradise.


Love and Peace
Dave

Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2018, 04:22:11 PM »
(Romans 5:12-21) 

'Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
(For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses,
even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,
who is the figure of Him that was to come.
But not as the offence, so also is the free gift.
For if through the offence of one many be dead,
much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.
And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation,
but the free gift is of many offences unto justification.
For if by one man's offence death reigned by one;
much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation;
even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.
For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:
That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.'


* The emphasis in these verses is upon the word, ONE. 
* Comparison is made between the ONE man Adam, and Christ, who is also ONE.
* This is how Adam as a figure of Christ is presented to us by the Holy Spirit.
* ONE man and not one nation.

In Christ Jesus
Cariad

Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply I agree with everything you say except for the last line Israel is Gods son and as such qualifies as Adam.

Hos 11:1  When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Mat 2:15  And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
 


As we see both Israel and Christ were call out of Egypt so both are said to be Gods sons the first and last Adam of this creation.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline francis drake

Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #5 on: January 23, 2018, 09:07:50 PM »
We as individuals are not in the image of God it is only when we are all united in one body the body of believers the body of Christ who is our head this is man in the image of God and this man will live on this earth which will be a paradise.
Again you are plain wrong biblically Dave.
James3v9With it (the tongue) we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, those made according to the image of God.
According to James, individual man is made in God's image.

You have also not explained how your new creation came about Dave. What happened to the original creation?

Seriously Dave, where on earth did you dig this stuff up. Its perverting your spiritual senses.
Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline Cariad

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2018, 02:36:22 AM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for your reply I agree with everything you say except for the last line Israel is Gods son and as such qualifies as Adam.

Hos 11:1  When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Mat 2:15  And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.
 


As we see both Israel and Christ were call out of Egypt so both are said to be Gods sons the first and last Adam of this creation.

Love and Peace
Dave
'And so it is written,
'The first man Adam was made a living soul;
the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.'
Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural;
and afterward that which is spiritual.
The first man is of the earth, earthy:
the second man is the Lord from heaven.
As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy:
and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
And as we have borne the image of the earthy,
we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.

(1 Cor.15:45-49)

Praise God!

Hello again, Dave,

* The Holy Spirit's use of the prophecy of Hosea 11:1, in Matthew 2:15, is an occasion where the 'sense' is accommodated, being different from it's first use, and is adapted to quite a different event or circumstance (see context) : as in Matthew 2:17-18, which is quoted from, Jeremiah 31:15.

* It is true that God refers to Israel as His son, but Israel is never referred to as, 'Adam,' by the Holy Spirit; so what right have we to make that application?  None!

* Can Israel be called, 'The First Man', as Adam is in 1 Corinthians 15:45 & 47?  No! 

In Christ Jesus
Cariad






Offline davetaff

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Re: Israel is Adam
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2018, 10:24:36 AM »
Again you are plain wrong biblically Dave.
James3v9With it (the tongue) we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, those made according to the image of God.
According to James, individual man is made in God's image.

You have also not explained how your new creation came about Dave. What happened to the original creation?

Seriously Dave, where on earth did you dig this stuff up. Its perverting your spiritual senses.

Hi Frances
Thank you for you reply I see you have only replied to part of my post so must agree with the rest :undecided:

As for the scripture you quoted it all depends on what man in Gods image means and what about the women where do they come in.

In Genesis the first Adam and eve became one so if I should remain single all my life I cannot be in Gods image.

As for the creation it is one creation in three stages try to see it as Father Son and Holy Spirit sound familiar.

We are in the Spiritual part of it Christ is Spirit and so is his body.

Love and Peace
Dave