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Offline Cariad

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In Adam and In Christ
« on: January 19, 2018, 04:03:55 PM »
Hello again,

In the thread,'Genesis and the OT', the subject of the image of God, and Adam as a figure of Christ, got merged and intermingled; and I thought it would be good to separate them and treat them as the separate subjects they are, in order to fully understand the significance of this figure, as used by the Holy Spirit in His Word.

* Romans 5:14 we are told that Adam is 'a figure of Him that was to come'. The One that was to come, as we all know was the Lord Jesus Christ.

* In what way (does the Bible reveal) was Adam a figure of Christ?

* Well,in Romans 5:12-21  - we are told that sin and death entered into the world through Adam, but that forgiveness of sin, and life eternal, by means of the resurrection from the dead, came through the Lord Jesus Christ. See also in 1 Corinthians:-

'For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.'

'And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.'

(1Cor 15:21-22, 45)

* This is how the Holy Spirit uses this figure.

Praise God!

In Christ Jesus
Chris





Offline davetaff

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Re: In Adam and In Christ
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2018, 06:25:47 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for this thread so who was man in the image of God my answer is.

.  2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 4  Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they       


The express image of his person we can't argue with that can we the question is was he the image of God at his first advent or his second I believe at his second.

So if Christ is man in Gods image the last Adam at his second advent we need to look backwards in history as we have it in scripture to find the first Adam.

this may seam a strange way to answer this post the point I am trying to make is when we begin to talk about Adam we always go to Genesis but Genesis dose not tell us a great deal about Adam jest that God created him the created his helper Eve and the became one.

the scriptures tell us the Christ is the last Adam so one would think there would be simuralities between the two this is why I say let us consider Christ as Adam then search the scripture to find the first Adam.

The first place to look is of course in Genesis

Gen 2:21  And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22  And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23  And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

I think this verse could describe the crucifixion very well sleep in other parts of scripture is  a synonym for death Christ was put to death on the cross out of his side came blood and water the blood the Spirit and the water the word from these the woman was created the last Adams Eve the church his body his helper.   

 
Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
   


Who was the father and mothe Christ would leave I say it was Israel when they rejected him he rejected then but they will be brought back in the end times.   

Love and peace
Dave


Offline Cariad

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Re: In Adam and In Christ
« Reply #2 on: January 20, 2018, 03:08:25 PM »
Hi Chris
Thank you for this thread so who was man in the image of God my answer is.

.  2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

 3  Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

 4  Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they       


The express image of his person we can't argue with that can we the question is was he the image of God at his first advent or his second I believe at his second.

So if Christ is man in Gods image the last Adam at his second advent we need to look backwards in history as we have it in scripture to find the first Adam.

* There is no problem here, Dave.  For the Scriptures are clear concerning who the first Adam is, and that is the man God Himself named Adam, who was the first man made.  It is he that was made in the image of God, along with Eve, who was created from Adam, 'male and female created He them.' Made in the physical likeness of the image of Elohim.

Quote
davetaff:
this may seam a strange way to answer this post the point I am trying to make is when we begin to talk about Adam we always go to Genesis but Genesis dose not tell us a great deal about Adam jest that God created him the created his helper Eve and the became one.

* Yes, Genesis tells us about Adam, and that is all we need to know, as far as the use the Holy Spirit makes of Adam, as a figure of Christ, is concerned.

Quote
? the scriptures tell us the Christ is the last Adam so one would think there would be simuralities between the two this is why I say let us consider Christ as Adam then search the scripture to find the first Adam.

The first place to look is of course in Genesis

Gen 2:21  And the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon Adam, and he slept: and he took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh instead thereof;
Gen 2:22  And the rib, which the LORD God had taken from man, made he a woman, and brought her unto the man.
Gen 2:23  And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.

I think this verse could describe the crucifixion very well sleep in other parts of scripture is  a synonym for death Christ was put to death on the cross out of his side came blood and water the blood the Spirit and the water the word from these the woman was created the last Adams Eve the church his body his helper.
Gen 2:24  Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 


Who was the father and mother Christ would leave I say it was Israel when they rejected him he rejected then but they will be brought back in the end times.   

* Why, when we have the Holy Spirit's explanation as to  Adam as a figure of Christ in Romans 5, and 1 Cor. 15,  should we try to add to that explanation thoughts and explanations of our own devising?  Isn't God's own explanation enough for us?  Do we think we can do better than He? 

* By what authority do you feel you have the right to add to God's Word, Dave?

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Offline davetaff

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Re: In Adam and In Christ
« Reply #3 on: January 20, 2018, 03:51:37 PM »
Hi Chris
You Said
Quote
By what authority do you feel you have the right to add to God's Word, Dave?

What word have I altered all I have done is given the scripture and what I believe they mean and they are all in keeping with the genesis account albeit from a different perspective than the norm.
If what I say is wrong please refute it with scripture I would thank you.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Cariad

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Re: In Adam and In Christ
« Reply #4 on: January 20, 2018, 04:00:14 PM »
Hi Chris
You Said
What word have I altered all I have done is given the scripture and what I believe they mean and they are all in keeping with the genesis account albeit from a different perspective than the norm.
If what I say is wrong please refute it with scripture I would thank you.

Love and Peace
Dave

Hello Dave,

Your, 'different perspective', is adding to God's own recorded explanation of how Adam is a figure of the One that was to come, given for our learning in Romans and 1 Corinthians (see the OP).  You have chosen to ignore that explanation and give one of your own invention, which no amount of Scripture quotation can justify.

Please forgive me for any offence caused.
In Christ Jesus.
Chris

Offline francis drake

Re: In Adam and In Christ
« Reply #5 on: January 20, 2018, 05:58:45 PM »
Hi Chris
You Said
What word have I altered all I have done is given the scripture and what I believe they mean and they are all in keeping with the genesis account albeit from a different perspective than the norm.
If what I say is wrong please refute it with scripture I would thank you.
Its not really up to Cariad to refute what you have said Dave, its up to you to provide validity for your theories rather than just rambling vague connections.
Despite constantly presenting this idea you have never given the slightest sensible proof. Additionally, scripture states in plain sight who the first and second Adam are and they are not Israel.

Disturb us Lord, when we are too pleased with ourselves. When our dreams have come true because we dreamed too little. When we arrived safely because we sailed too close to the shore. Disturb us Lord, to dare more boldly. To venture on wider seas. Where storms will show your mastery; Where, losing sight of land, we shall find the stars. We ask you to push back the horizons of our hopes; And to push into the future, in strength, courage, hope and love.                     (SIR FRANCIS DRAKE 1577)

Offline davetaff

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Re: In Adam and In Christ
« Reply #6 on: January 21, 2018, 11:39:53 AM »
Its not really up to Cariad to refute what you have said Dave, its up to you to provide validity for your theories rather than just rambling vague connections.
Despite constantly presenting this idea you have never given the slightest sensible proof. Additionally, scripture states in plain sight who the first and second Adam are and they are not Israel.

Hi Frances
I believe I have given quite a few proof texts over the years to support my theory are you saying they are all wrong if so why.

. Rom 5:14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come     

Adam is the figure of the one who was to come and the only one who fits the bill is Israel.

If you would take the time to compare the two you will find that there stories are the same Christ follows the same path as Israel but in a shorter time span.

The words if the days had not bean shortened come to mind.

Love and Peace
Dave

Offline Cariad

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Re: In Adam and In Christ
« Reply #7 on: January 23, 2018, 10:35:23 AM »
You have your way, again, @davetaff.

Another derailed thread.